No Shelf Control: The Books, Booze, and Banter Podcast

Episode 48: Interview with Lindsey Pogue (Forgotten Lands)

December 27, 2021 Lindsey Sparks, Lindsey Pogue Season 1 Episode 48
No Shelf Control: The Books, Booze, and Banter Podcast
Episode 48: Interview with Lindsey Pogue (Forgotten Lands)
Show Notes Transcript

Author Lindsey Sparks interviews her cohost, Lindsey Pogue, about her historical post-apocalyptic series, Forgotten Lands.

WARNING: This episode contains spoilers about the Forgotten Lands series.

LINDSEY POGUE'S LINKS:
Website: https://www.lindseypogue.com/
Facebook: @authorlindseypogue
Instagram: @authorlindseypogue
TikTok: @authorlindseypogue
FB Reader Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/236068923965729/
Newsletter: https://www.lindseypogue.com/newsletter

FORGOTTEN LANDS SERIES:
Borne of Sand and Scorn (prequel)
Dust and Shadow
Earth and Ember
Tide and Tempest

BOOK RECS!
Red, White, and Royal Blue by Casey McQuiston

Forgotten Lands series by Lindsey Pogue

NON-BOOK LINKS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:
Lindsey Sparks' Discord server: https://discord.gg/EH4XPY6djPc

What is Web3 And How You Can Capitalize On The Dawn Of Decentralization by Yaro Starak: https://yaro.blog/32703/web3/ 

CURRENT FREEBIES (at the time of episode airing):
Dust & Shadow by Lindsey Pogue
Echo in Time by Lindsey Sparks
The Darkest Winter by Lindsey Pogue
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Lindsey Pogue's website:
https://www.lindseypogue.com/

Lindsey Sparks' website:
https://www.authorlindseysparks.com/

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Welcome to episode 48 of the no self control podcast. I am Lindsey sparks and I am like feeling, hold on. Sorry everybody. Okay. I was feeling nervous about which mic was recording. Um, I am Lindsey sparks here with my lovely co-authoring cohost Lindsey Pogue, opening this extremely professionally. Um, I, I will be interviewing our very own LP today. Um, so it will just be the two of us and we will be talking about her Forgotten Lands series, uh, which she recently, uh, wrapped up with the third and final book called Tide and Tempest. Yes, I did. Yes, she did in November, I believe. Yes. Yeah. So last month, um, and before we dive in, uh, I feel like I need to remind everybody that this is not a spoiler free zone, nothing in the forgotten lands is safe. Um, and you know, us, we love to go off on tangents and talk about random things. And so that means once we get to the book discussion, like pretty much, no book is safer, right? Yeah. But I will try to give them a reminder, um, a spoiler warning reminder, right before we go into the actual like book discussion parts. Uh, yeah. So, um, before we get to the extra spoiler-y ness, um, tell me what you're drinking. Um, well, it's that time of year. So, um, I cracked open a, uh, one of my, uh, spiked eggnog that I'm Dennis and I make for gifts every year. Um, and so it's time I opened some for myself and it's delicious. I like it when it's older, but it's still delicious. So, yeah. Yeah. So you're going to like it more in February in fact, and you're gonna think this is gross, but, um, I found because the recipe says you could age it for up to two years. And I actually still had half of a Mason jar left from last year. I, I was kind of nervous, but I tried it out, uh, like a month ago and it was actually so, so good because it's so fermented and smooth, you know, like it's just really rich and creamy and it's not like when you make it to begin with, it's really good, but there's three different types of boozes in there. So it's, it's a lot, you know, like it's kinda strong, so it's nice after many months, like it's just really smooth and it's just really easy to drink. So anyway, I remember then you were able to like compare it, right? Yeah. And it was really cool. So that's why when I give them as gifts, I tell everyone, you can have it now. It's right. Cause I, I usually Dennis and I will do like, uh, wait two or three weeks before we give them to people so that, you know, they've had some time to set in and, um, age a little bit, but I'll tell them like, if you have patients hold off for as long as you can and try it, or you can do like a, like a, try some now and then try some in two months or something or, you know, whatever, because you can taste the difference. And it's just really, really yummy. And I am like 99% sure. Last year, but can you remind me what is in, what goes into exit? Like does egg go into egg nog? Yeah. So it's, but it's only egg yolk. Uh, definitely don't drink it if you're lactose intolerant, because there's about three different types of cream slash milk in there. Yeah. And then the egg yolks and then, um, you know, nutmeg and sugar and, um, salt, and then it's like, it makes like one of those big pictures, you know, this is what the recipe calls for. And it's also has a cup of, to make and rum a cup of bourbon and a cup of cognac. So, and then when you started. Do you store it in the fridge? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's, it's not like, so, like I know a lot of people, they love to get whatever that pre-made stuff is at Costco, which now that I've had mine, I'm like, oh, that sounds so gross. But like that kind of stuff, like you just buy it off the shelf. Um, and it doesn't come refrigerated. You have to keep this in a refrigerator. Everything in it is perishable. The reason why it doesn't go bad though, is because you have all that booze in there. That's just like, you know, it just ages it. So, and then like, so the stuff that you buy at the store does it, is it have booze in it too? Um, I don't know if you can. I mean, everything that like they have in the milk section is just, it's just ignored. It's not spiked in any way that I've seen anyway. Cause my mom, my mom was one of those, you know, he loves those diehards that during Christmas and she'll get like those cartons of eggnog and then she'll add her own Brandy. She'll do like Brandy. But I just go for the, really, this really expensive to me. Don't can wrong. I mean, it's a lot of ingredients and it's a lot of money, but it's totally worth it. And it's like a fun thing to do. It's like one of our little traditions now. Yeah. So no, it's fun. Yeah. Um, I think my biggest complaint is we put them in Mason jars to give to people and it's a lot of damn Mason jars generator. So that's the only thing. Um, but yeah, you know, Hey first world problems, but yeah, I totally recommend it. I recommend people trying it if you like eggnog because especially the adult beverage kind, um, because it's, it's just so much better than just buying it at the store, you know, it's fresh and homemade and you know what you're putting in it and you know, so. Interesting. Yeah, I know. I'll probably be drinking at three months for not everything. Think I'm creepy. I did. I did. I did burn myself out though. So that's why I think I had some leftover no, so excited a month ago or whatever. I think it was. Yeah, I think it was during Thanksgiving. I found it. I was like, oh my God, I'm going to try it. And I was very pleasantly surprised. So we'll see how it goes. I don't know. I'm delirious. Let's let's yeah. What are you drinking? I'm not drinking eggnog figured. Um, I am drinking. Red wine. Nice. Yeah, I believe this is a Shiraz I want to say. Um, and I also believe it is called Inkscape who I like that. And it has like a octopuss-y squid thing on there. I know that octopuses and octopi and squid are two different, um, creatures. Uh, so I apologize if anybody's insulted by me, I'm combining them something technically is on the label. Nice. Um, yeah, so, um, I actually haven't had any to drink yet, so I will do that right now. Let's do it. Let's do cheers. I clinked my teeth. Cool. Um, yeah, it's good. I had some last night, so I already knew what I was getting into. Um, all right. What are you working on right now? Um, I haven't had a lot of time to work, so what I can do when I have time is, um, I'm going through my, you know, my skeleton draft of city of ruin and I'm, um, really flushing that out and slowly but surely tacking on that word count, you know, because yeah. Yeah. I think I'm on like chapter. 13 or 14 or something like that. Yeah. Um, and I'm assuming that the reason you're not having a lot of time to work right now is because of your feline child. Yeah. Um, he's doing a lot better, which is great. But, uh, so he went in for surgery, like kind of an emergency surgery, uh, two weeks ago. And like he had this really big lump that just popped up on his head and then they, um, I just anyway, long story short. Gross. And they had to do draining tubes. And anyway, I'm sure this happened to a lot of people's cats before, but it's never happened to me. So, um, it definitely wasn't, it was more, I think it was mostly super stressful because I couldn't get him in anywhere. So you know how that is, like your kid's sick or your pet sick and, you know, he has a giant lump on his head. Like it looked like it was going to explode and I couldn't get him in anywhere. Uh, yeah. Yeah. So, um, so yeah, so I, after a few days I finally got him in and I know everyone's probably thinking, why don't you take him to the emergency room, but he wasn't in any pain I could touch it. It was fine. Like he didn't have a fever. He was eating. Normally it was pouring. Like he acted like it was nothing. So I was like, I'm not going to go and pay triple the amount if I can just get him to the vet, you know? So, um, anyway, and it was, it all worked out obviously, but. Yeah, so got them in God taken care of, but long story shorter is he's an outdoor cat for the most part. And he has had to be inside for two weeks with a cone and he can't clean himself. He can't like barely eat on his own. Like he's doing better now. I mean, it's been like ridiculous. It's been ridiculous. Um, but now he's just angry because he's like, I want out that fucking door. Like he's like clawing at the windows and he's just like, it's going crazy. But I'm really hoping that, um, I, when I take him to the vet tomorrow, they're going to be like, Hey, he's totally awesome. And we're going to let him out into the world. I mean, he's still in the cone of shame. Yeah. Yeah. He is. Um, and he's not sleeping because he's so irritable, which means I'm not sleeping. So I'm really ready for him to. The normal again, it's just kind of weird because like, I, they shaved his head. Right. So I can still see all the incisions and all the stitches. And to me, it doesn't look like he would be okay to go out, but they said by now, it should be okay. So I'm like, oh, that's kind of weird, but I guess we'll see what they say tomorrow. I mean, I'm not going to argue with them if they say that he's fine because I mean, it's no quality of life for anyone in this house right now, including him. And I wish he could understand, you know, every time he like tears off his cone and I'm like freaking out trying to get it back on. Cause he's tearing at his, I'm just like making it worse for yourself, buddy. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah. I remember, uh, we always had indoor outdoor cats, uh, growing up and, um, you always knew which cats were the fighters and which were the runners based on where they would end up getting abscessed. And they're on their heads or their butts. Yeah. Well, and that was the thing is they thought it was assist because I'm not getting gross again, but just because he had no infection symptoms whatsoever, no wounds, nothing. But when they went into like remove it, they're like, oh, this is not what we thought it was. Um, but then it was kind of, it's one of those things where I'm trying to find the silver lining. One of the things that, uh, this new doctor that I took him to this. 'cause my, my peeps couldn't get him in his, um, he, you know, he's been going to the same vet for, we adopted him when he was one and a half, two years old. He's been going to the same that ever since. And there's some things, some issues that I've had with him that they've kind of been like, oh, you just need to grow thicker skin. And just like, this is just kind of like how cats are sorta deal. Like, I've, I'm pretty sure that's even the words that he used at some point the doctor. And I kinda got that cause like, I don't know what beast life was before I rescued him. You know, he was already an adult. He already had tons of health issues. Like I don't know what the poor guy went through. So yeah, he was kind of neurotic in a lot of ways, whatever, but they're this new that is kind of like figuring out some things about him that I feel like my vet should have. Noticed or, you know, like one of them is a heart murmur. I'm like, I don't think that just pops up. I mean, if it does, he was at the vet like six months ago, did it just pop up between now and six months ago? I don't know, maybe, but, um, I don't know, just things like that. So I kind of, I'm trying to look at the silver lining. It was like, maybe I need a new vet at this point, you know? And I don't know. It's kinda weird, but anyway, we'll see how all that goes. But, um, hopefully tomorrow though, everything will be right as rain and we're going to just get all back to normal and right before the holidays that I never even finished decorating our house for Christmas. I never finished Christmas shopping, but it is what it is because you can't really plan for these things. So yeah. If I could trust him and leave him alone, it would be a different story, but I obviously can't rip his cone off. Yeah. And then tear apart his stitches, which is what he's trying to do. I've been drugging him when I can desperate. Yeah. Well, anyway, what are you working on? Cause you don't have your drift right now. Yeah. Cause you have it. Um, uh, I am, uh, yeah, so song of scabs and fallen stars is officially out of my hands. The whole thing is with beta readers. Um, which feels both like wonderful. And also it's always like a little bit scary before you hear anything back where you're just like, oh my God, what a terrible. Um, but, uh, yeah, so I am working on my insanely long to-do list. Um, that includes like proofing audio books and I set up a discord channel or discord server, which I've been on. Um, it's actually really fun. So I've been on for all, all of my work sessions. I go on there and I have my people can listen to me and like my like random mutterings and ramblings and stuff as I'm like cursing while I'm trying to do stuff. Um, and then I have a chat channel set up that goes with the, my audio channel. And so people can talk to me and like respond. Um, yeah, it's been really fun. And then I have like places where they can post a fanfiction and stuff like that. I love it. I'm really excited. Um, so that's cool. Yeah. So that's like, I have my reader group on Facebook. That's like for my good fan or like my great, great fan, like people who live in books and then it's like the super hardcore people head on over to discord at hanging out with me all day. Yeah. Um, and I can't, I don't know. It's just like been so much, so much stuff that I didn't do for three months that I'm just has piled up, you know, how it is, you do kind of the same process. So however I do really, since I, I think you gave me the idea to do it like this, um, to like, to just like, take a break and shove everything out of your head and not worry about the admin stuff. And then like, do it. Between projects kind of, um, yeah, so it, it is really nice to just not be like, feeling like you're stressing over juggling story and admin stuff. So, yeah. No, that's good. Yeah. Um, I haven't, I have my discord. I've had it for so long. I should utilize it more. It's really fun. I'm really enjoying it. I can't, I don't know half the stuff you can do with it, but you know, it's the same way with most of the people who've joined. So yeah. I have one, um, one reader who's been hanging out with me most of my time that I'm in my office and it's just great. She's just like, yeah, I'll be like, God, I really want a cookie. And then she'll just pop in the chat. Be like, get a cookie, like, okay. Since you told me, I guess since you twisted my arm. Yeah. So. Uh, I'll put a link to that. If anybody wants to check it out. Um, yeah, that's fine. Yeah. Um, so what are you, are you, since you're not able to work much, are you able to get some good listening and some good reading? I, uh, funny you should ask. Um, so I am listening to audiobook. I'm looking at it right now because I know I forget the name. Um, so well read, I wanted to read this book. I was trying to get my book club to read it last. This last time we met it's called red, white, and royalty. By Casey McQuiston and, um, it's a romcom, it's an LGBT, uh, romcom and it won like dozens of accolades and awards in 2019, uh, NPR, Oprah, all bunch of stuff. Anyway. So I was like, I want to check it out. And it's, like I said, it's kind of it's romcom. So it's not like dark and crazy. It's just like, it's just really witty. It's really fun. Um, and it's essentially about this guy whose mom he's like the first son. Um, and because his mom's the president of the United States, and then he doesn't get along with the prince of Wales. Um, they're like kind of arch enemies, and then they get into some trouble and so they have to start spending more time together and then they decide that they like each other and it's really cute. And fun said, it's like, it's super witty, which I re smart writing, which is what I really like. Um, so anyways, I'm enjoying that, but mostly I have been beta reading. Um, so I had someone else's manuscript before yours. So I just started yours a couple of days ago, but yeah. So pretty much all my free time has been reading that way. Um, yeah. And then I just got tied in Tempest audio book. Um, so I need to approve that, but I just haven't had time, so yeah. Yeah. Anyway, but that's me. What about you? What are you reading? Um, well I just read Titan Tempest. Oh yeah. That makes sense. Which was the only book that you've ever released that I think I didn't beta read. Um, just because life, um, So I had to read that. Um, and I feel like I must be reading something else. Oh, I just, uh, I'm not actually, I just haven't had a chance. Um, I ha I have been proofing, um, song of the soulless, so the latest Atlanta's legacy, um, audio book. So I've been listening to that and I just sent off my, I don't know what you call it, like change requests to my narrator, um, this afternoon. So nice. Yeah. So I might, um, I'm in this weird, um, obsession phase outside of not really like reading books so much as like learning as much as I possibly can about this is kind of funny. Um, the metaverse and like web three and crypto and. Blockchain and like an empty, like all the, like the rabbit holes deep and I am in it. Yeah. And a lot of people are, yeah. And it's just like exploded this last like month. I feel like it's become a little bit more mainstream. Um, and I don't, I didn't really notice because my head was in the sand with my book. Um, and, uh, I just came up for air and it was just seemed like it was like, I was hearing about it everywhere. And, um, so now I'm listening to a couple of podcasts about it. Um, just bingeing through those and reading everything I can about it, because I feel like there's going to be some really cool opportunities for authors. Once we get into the actual, like multi metaverse virtual reality situation, that's going to be happening in the next few years. You can do some really cool stuff with like our fictional worlds and stuff like that. So I just want to be, you know, uh, informed and ready for when it, when I can start building virtual echo world is Joanna Penn talking about it yet? She's been talking about it for, I want to say, like she did it an episode. I think this summer that was all about web three and blockchain and stuff like that, but I feel like so much has changed already. Um, and I know she, in her latest episode, she did reference, um, an article written by one of her mentors, Yaro something. Um, and so if in the latest episode of the creative pen, for any people who were interested in this, um, which is a podcast for authors, um, she has a link to an article that explains a lot of web three blockchain metaverse kind of stuff, and how that relates to, to authors and publishing and stuff like that. So, yeah. Yeah. It's like everyone I know is buying things. I don't even know what the name is. And I'm just like NFS, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. There's, it's like a whole thing and I'm like, I know, I know it's crazy. It's super crazy. But, and I'm like, I feel like I need to, but I want to make sure that whatever I invest in, I make an informed decision and isn't just like, don't jump on the bandwagon. Exactly. So that's why I'm in this like binge podcasts, binge kind of thing, going on. There's crazy stuff out there. Like these horses that you can buy, um, Zed run, I think it's called you buy these horses and they have like digital DNA and you can like breed them and they race. And it's like, like real life horse racing. It's crazy. The stuff's crazy. So ready player 25 or what? Yeah. Yeah. It's like, it really is. And, and I, I think I'm getting even more excited about it because I'm like, oh my God, whole world online. Like my weirdo books, like. Like what the metaverse could be is like what all world, all world online is a metaverse and I'm like, okay, there's gotta be somebody out there who knows some way to like harness AI to build the blue verse that I created in there, which is just like this giant library, virtual reality library that has every book that's ever been created. And then the AI just like creates games based on like reading those books. And I was like, here, I'm going to create a game for like all of these different books, personal grain, even thinking about it. I'm like, yes, I need this to happen. Then it has the brain like you, when it comes to this stuff, I'm going to have him look into it and then he can let me, he can write. He can help me make informed decisions because I can't even go there. Aren't you excited about the possibility of like playing a pride and prejudice game? Yeah. I mean, that would be really cool. That'd be really cool. But if it's your fucking world, I'm getting stuck in there and people are gonna start dying all around me. I'm not really looking forward to that. Yeah. Um, yeah, so that's what I've been consuming T-Rex is yeah. You died of dysentery. Oh yes. I want to play a virtual Oregon trail. That would be really fun. Um, yeah. So, um, I guess this is, uh, this is the part of the show where I'm going to tell people, um, Right. We both talked about what we're reading, didn't we? Yeah. Yeah. Working on it's just, I don't have like any updates. I don't have a lot of silence. Sorry. No, it's cool. I'm trying to think if I have anything else that's like exciting or notable, but I don't feel like I do. Um, I mean, if I think of it, I'll just blurt it out. So final spoiler reminder everybody. This is the point of no return. Um, we are diving into the forgotten lands and specifically tied tapas, but also just kind of the, most of my questions have to do with the series as a whole, um, because it's fun to talk about something once it's complete. Um, so can you please give listeners then introduction to the forgotten lands series? And then specifically to tightened Tempest. Yeah. So the forgotten lands is I would say it's kind of like my pet project because it's something I started a while ago, but it kind of combines my love of history and that I write post-apocalyptic stuff. So I, I really liked this one a lot. This is my favorite world that I've created. And essentially it's, I mean, I guess I kind of want to preface with the fact that because I love history. Um, I was reading all these really cool, um, articles and essays that were written during the Victoria era when, and I had to do with, um, you know, all these post-apocalyptic and apocalyptic ideas and theories of all these things that were going to happen. And it kind of just stuck in the back of my mind, you know? So then, you know, I, I, um, When I did decide to start writing the series, I was like, okay, well, it doesn't seem like much of a stretch that, you know, the world could have changed, especially if it's a climate change. Um, and so I really wanted to Nessel in the kind of Victorian feel, but then I wanted to be able to take liberties of my own. So the, uh, forgotten lands is a world where, um, there's a climatic shift, uh, during the 18 hundreds, the Victorian era, and it changes the whole world. And I'm sure we can talk more about what that looks like later, but, um, essentially, um, you know, when the world changes and the climate changes, there were all these different, um, people who either died of disease, um, you know, like dysentery. Yes, actually. Um, but it's kind of one of those things where, you know, climate change all over the world. So maybe where it was, you know, kind of like a temporary. Climate in one area becomes a desolate desert or suddenly there's just snow, um, covering the ground and blizzards, you know, all year, every year. Um, uh, so I really wanted to play with the elements with this. And so each book in the series is a different settlement or civilization that kind of survived in their own little pockets, um, in what it worked out to be like the continental United States. So, um, for the specific series. So anyways, yeah, it's, it's all these people who kind of went duck and cover sort of deal during this big climatic change, uh, during the Victorian area. So you go and you look, you know, 200, 300 years later, what do these people look like? How are they living? How are they surviving? How did they survive? You know, when everybody else perished that sort of thing. And so each book, like I said, is a different sort of location or group of people and how they survived and, you know, um, every story. So like Dustin shot. It's very kind of like wild Westy. Um, it's kinda like the ice, like gritty feel to it. Um, earth, an Ember kind of piggybacks on that, but there's a lot more, um, mythology and culture, a lot of indigenous, um, with all of Dean's stuff, weaved into that, but also kind of like a Western feel. And then the third book, um, which is tied in Tempest, the newest one that just came out that is more, it takes place more on the west coast, over in my area. And it's kind of like, um, the weather, how it happens here. I guess I should kind of back up because Dustin's shadow is very like desolate desert, crazy sand storms. Um, and that's kind of the same thing with earth and Ember, but, um, they also live up on a mountain, so there's lots of snow and, uh, earthquakes and stuff. And then it's really cool. Cause tide and Tempus is completely different. Um, it's a lot of lightening ravaged worlds and, um, more has like kind of a Viking S field just because it has to do with like coastal living and Raiders coming and people stealing and killing and that sort of thing. So yeah, it kind of is like the gamut of everything that I love and every book kind of just encompasses something different. I guess the overarching part of this world is a, the shift, which is the big, you know, change that happened globally to almost 300 years ago, but also, um, because it all ends up being in the United States. Um, they're all kind of connected in some way. Um, all these different little lands, these little pockets of people. So. Uh, yeah, I mean, that's not assisting way to describe the series is great though, but it's kind of just gives, it's kinda hard to like, it's just, it's, it's just, like I said, it's all the, it's the adventure and the love stories and the survival stuff that I really liked. Um, but I wanted each story needed to have a different feel. So, um, they're all a little bit different. So then, um, uh, I had a couple of questions, questions pop up while you were talking there. So one was, um, what, um, so w do these stories take place in your, in your head? Are you thinking that these stories take place? What would be now? Ish. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So it's been a couple hundred years, like you said. Yeah. Um, and then also, so, because I know Dustin Chateau in earth and Amber are linked, like there's a couple like, um, crossover characters, um, but then are. Is tightened Tempest at the like general same time period. Yes. So they're actually, I don't, I don't know if you ever finished earth and Ember. I did. I did. Okay. So the, the last, the, um, epilogue for that is essentially ends with, uh, Luke and Kaia there. They traveled to the, the scorch forest is what they call as the lightening lands or whatever. They all call it something different, you know? Um, but anyway, they traveled through the scorch forest and they see that people go there and there's huts, like there's places where people live and they shelter from the storms. And so they say that they're going to leave an offering cause they're going to do. Some, you know, they're going to take from their land, but they don't want to just be those people, you know? And that was the offering reference. Yeah. And so in tightened Tempest, um, when they go, um, every year they go, they have this Trek, um, kind of like this pilgrimage or whatever, they go to the scorch forest. Um, cause they have to log in, they have to get all the stuff they need for their home. Um, and they see that know the people were there, that they left offerings and that sort of thing. Okay. So then do you have like real are real landmarks that like link up with some of these places? So I know San Francisco is in tightened Tempus. Um, so the scorch forest to me was like, It's kind of like the Tahoe area, you know, like, um, because then beyond that is then when you start getting into the desert lands, which is like where Arizona and all that is, which is where, um, like monument valley and all that is where, um, doesn't shadow essentially takes place and earth and number. So they're, you know, they're tracking they're, they're kind of both like tracking this way and they kind of meet in the middle. Cool. All right. Um, and you already talked about one of my questions. Okay. So I would love to talk a little bit more about the shift itself. Um, so you said it happened during the Victoria Victorian era. Um, can you tell us a little bit more? I think it's a really fascinating. Um, and can you tell us a little bit more about like what exactly it is? Yeah. So, um, I really, you know, cause there's so much talk about, you know, especially now, um, about climate change and what humans are doing to the world. And I mean, the industrial revolution was, you know, back then. And so there's this huge boom in everything population was just like disgustingly. I mean, it was just horrible, which increased death rates and you know, disease and all this stuff. So, um, you know, you have all this supply and demand all these, you know, all these issues all over the world, people sailing everywhere. And so I just really liked the idea of like, why couldn't it have happened then? I mean, you have this huge influx of people and pollution and all over the world, there's this factory is going up and nobody can keep up, like people are dying because they're getting worked at us, you know? So it just kind of made sense to me that, um, it could, it could, I mean, it could have happened. I mean, yeah. Probably things would have had to been a little different, but who's to say, you know, like, I don't know. It just, it didn't seem like that much of a stretch, so I really just capitalize on the whole industrial revolution. Boom. Um, and then, um, just kind of went into, you know, Bad living conditions. Um, so weathering weather conditions that are worsening and getting your like more toxic Fogg's and like darker skies and the, um, elements, like I said, like the, um, people started going west or to different places in the United States trying to escape their own. Like, especially if you're in the city where there are so much pollution and people are dying, you know? Um, so back then it would have been black lung I call choke. But, um, there's just, there's just a lot of different things, you know, that I was able to kind of take from history, but kind of make a twist on it and be like, well, it still works. Like even if all these things still happened, even though the world didn't end. So that's why it's just so fascinating to me. Um, but yeah, so essentially that's what it was though. It's it's just like the industrial revolution just like took the world by storm quite literally and changed everything and correct me if I'm wrong. Uh, cause it's been a long time since I read it, but in, um, born of San ans corn, which was the, is your pre-call um, to the whole series pretty much, right? Yeah. It actually shows the shift. Right. And I believe, I hope I'm not making this up, but there was like a, a black wave of fog or something. Right. So yeah, the, that really gets into the nitty-gritty because all of the other stories they take place, you know, almost 300 years later. So the first one, Bernie Sanders, scorn is like this kind of affluent white family who should technically the father's a doctor. They should be able to essentially buy their way out of every problem that they have. But the world is ending and people are dying and you can't hide from, you know, the toxic Fogg's that are in the big cities. And so they flee west, uh, spoiler alert, they flee west, but it doesn't save them. So, I mean, so, you know, it's just like, you can be a doctor and you can. Yeah, it doesn't mean you're going to live sort of thing. So it was, that was a, that was a way that I wanted to show what was going on there, but then how people also, like, why did so many people flee to go west and you know, why are these pockets of civilization out there in the middle of nowhere and stuff? So cool. Yeah. Um, okay. I feel like you've answered all of that. Um, it's just such a cool, um, it leads to the change, the shift that you created leads to such interesting. Um, Settings and climates and stuff like, because everything in each of these books, we get to experience a setting that is so, or a climate that's so extreme. Yeah. And they're very distinct and very defined even between, um, dusted, shadow and earth and Ember, the setting, or the climates are still very different because one is like more mountainy and one is like, hardcore, like they're running out of water, desert. Yeah. Kind of situation. Um, for sure. And then the lightning and the lightning storms and tightened down visceral like extremely terrifying and just like come out of nowhere. Um, and like, it got me thinking like, is there any way that, that, that lightning storms are like that, like that. I don't know if, you know, I did a lot of research on Excel. I figure out like I wanted to fake. I wanted to be as realistic as possible to, you know, so I was trying to figure out the science behind it and the difference between like, what is dry lightning versus like a lightning storm with rain, you know, thunderstorms sort of thing. So it was really interesting, but there are places, there are places around the world, they get over 300 days of the year or lightning storms. So yeah, there really are places like that. Um, I mean, there's no place in the United States. It makes like the top 10 or anything, but like Venezuela and, um, places in Africa and stuff like that. So, yeah. And it's interesting because the other thing I really wanted to research is I obviously, like we know people out in like the Midwest or whatever, there's lightning storms and dust storms and stuff like that. I wanted to know, I wanted to learn more about like, how possible was it to have that on like a coastal area. And there's so a lot of the places that have this constant, um, lightening, a lot of them were over lakes and water, black water areas. So that was really interesting. So I was like, okay, so this is, this is really interesting. So yeah, and I, you know, it's funny because I originally wasn't going to do that with that story that when I first started plotting the series, I knew in my head, the third book was going to be like living underground because I really wanted it to be. A little more steam punky, but then at the same time, when I sat down to start plotting it, it didn't feel right. It didn't feel like it meshed really well. It didn't feel like it just, maybe just wasn't what I wanted to write. I'm not really sure. Um, so again, I think it's because I like the element stuff. I don't want to write about people being stuck in a tunnel. I want to write about like, I, I love the getting the elements of like illness ass. Like, you know what I mean? Like it's not just, it's people, it's a lot like as zombie book, because it's like, there's the people against the people. And then there's like this external scary thing. So in some books, it's, don't BS, but in this it's like the insane weather. So it doesn't shout out. It was like drought or it wasn't even a drought. It was just like, The climate, like the crazy sandstorms and then all the sandstorms too. But I mean, it was a drought, but it wasn't like, I feel like a drought is temporary. This is like, they have no water. There was no water. Yeah. But the sandstorms, I forgot about those. Yeah. That was intense. Yeah. And I just, I don't know why I don't. I just really, like I said, I just like writing the elements. So I think that's why I really enjoyed, um, writing the darkest winter. I know different series, but the darkest winter so much is because that like the elements, the trying to survive in Alaska is really hard to do a lot of research and make it realistic. But also because I've obviously never had to do it, but at the same time, it's like, it's so fascinating to me because it's not just crazy people in the world. It's not just man against man. It's like, you, there's so much out of your control that it's even more terrifying than somebody coming at, you think done almost because you don't know what's going to happen, you know? Yeah. So I don't know. It's just, I really, really liked the, the environment aspect. So, and it's really cool. Like, it was almost like you got to do an anthropological experiment and like kind of set up these civilizations based on the environment that these people are in. So like in destined shadow, there's a lot of like boarding up of windows and it just like. How, how does, how does this like crazy situation impact how you live every day and entitled 10 best? Like they don't have any metal, you know, like, I mean, I guess her weapon has like, yeah, but I know what you mean. Yeah. Yeah. Like the, and the, you know, the guy, um, do you say RAF or Rafe ref, right? I read. And it's funny in my head, I, I read it rape, but it's not, it's like, I think literally it's tells for us. Okay. So like RAF is commenting to Somara and then do say Somara okay. Yeah. Um, RAF has come or questioning or like you guys are so primitive, like all these, like, just like basic Woodhouse's and she's like, because we don't want to die in lightning. Yeah. It's like, and it's funny because, um, it it's, that was one of those details. I was like, I feel like I need to make this village dif like more dystopian or like more something and like, make it feel really different. And I was like, but it can't, it can't be fancy because they, they can't like they'll die. Like they, it has to be the most basic. It compiles like me. I mean, you know, so it's, I don't know. It was just really, that was one of those things where it kind of kind of clicked the moment I stopped putting all this pressure on myself was like, Lindsay, that doesn't really make sense. Like it has to be wood. It has to be kind of the barest materials because you don't want to be conducting like in a world of constant lightning storms. You don't want to be conducting, you know, everywhere all the time. Yeah. Anyway, I dunno, but yeah, no, it's, it was, I'm really obviously really glad that I went in that direction instead of the whole underground thing, because, um, it's just, I, I even tried to do that in the next series. The sister series ruined lands, and I was like, every time I go to sit down and I write maybe a few chapters about the tunnels, I'm like, this, isn't what I want. Like, I, this is not, this is not interesting to me. So I just think I need to stop trying to push myself to do that. And I just stick with the elements that I just really liked to write. The only thing that I feel like could be really cool about, um, in the sister series and underground is that. I don't well, the location, what I know of the location of the sister series or the locations, um, there's a lot more cool underground options. Yeah. I don't know how much you want to give away. So, um, yeah, no, I know. I actually, um, there's a lot of options and a lot of really cool stuff that I wanted to sit down and write, but I don't think enough of the story takes place there to warrant all the time. It would take me to set up that world. Um, that's my only problem, but I have definitely kind of done this like really basic outline for pre-cool that takes place about 75 years before this first book. Opens and ruin lands before, like when they first start coming up from underground because they were, I mean, that's how a lot of them survived in the city. Like they went underground in my head. That's what they did in London specifically. So, um, I definitely want to touch on that because I think that a lot of people would be interested in that for sure. But I just, like I said, I started to try and write it in the book and I was just like, this isn't the time it's taking me to set up this entire world underground for them to leave and then not be a part of it for, I just didn't, it was just taking too much time for me. I was getting really impatient. So we'll see. We'll see. I dunno. Betas might be like, oh no, you should probably talk about it more and then I'll see. But for now, um, yeah, I don't know. I just feel like just trying to go where my little writing brain wants to go, but following your muse. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I know I, and then also one of your readers had a question about your, um, main character names, um, which I feel like are really, especially in earth and Ember, and then in tightened Tempus, there's some really cool names. Um, so Kaia is the main female character, um, in earth and Ember. And then Somara is the main female, or I guess she is the main character in tightened Tempest. So, um, do those names have specific meaning and, um, What was the inspiration behind them? So everything in earth number has a meaning because that is obviously kind of, I really try to take really good care with that series. And I wanted to make sure that every, every, um, every indigenous name that I used was something, um, that was legit or something that, um, I just didn't want to be making up a bunch of stuff. Right. I wanted to pick names that actually had meaning, um, that I kind of would touch on. Off and on throughout the manuscript, but mostly I just wanted it to just be more real for myself. Um, I spent a lot of time researching, so I wanted to, you know, bring these characters to life for me in a different way than just giving them like a, a name that didn't have any meaning for me, you know? So, uh, Kaia definitely that's a, uh, a Hopi name. Um, and, um, it actually means a little wise one, so I thought I was really fitting what does feeling, um, and. Of course, there was some it's funny. Cause when you go and I'm looking at all these names and there's some really great ones and I was like, but I don't even know how to pronounce that. So I'm not going to make my readers try and pronounce that. Um, so I was trying, you know, I did have to kind of, you know, that them a little bit and make sure that oh my God, that is like the craziest part about, or not the craziest, but like one of the most annoying parts about writing about ancient Egypt. Yeah. I'm like can imagine. Uh, and so I ended up just like having a crazy name and then they get a much briefer nickname. Yeah, no, I totally get it. I it's, it's hard for sure. Um, but yeah, like Akima and Kimmy and all the like UNO, all of those are names or names that mean something maybe not necessarily to Hopi because it's a group of a bunch of different, um, tribes that came together during the shift and everything. But. But they, I tried to pick a name, something, like I said, it was somewhat easy for people to kind of clean on too. Um, but also something that didn't mean something. Right. So, and then Somara, um, she has a Slavic name, uh, Russian names specifically. Um, and, uh, it means the guardian or protector. So it's a really pretty name. Yeah. I, um, her mother's background, um, right. Olivia. Yeah. Um, is it's so funny because that's obviously not a very, a Russian name, but it was one of those situations where I, um, I one of my giveaways for, uh, with my readers to name a character. And, um, she really wanted to name that character and I wasn't going to say no. So it is what it is. Um, but anyway, so, um, but yeah, so I mean, Abraham, he, his name is just what it is. I just came to me. It just felt right. So, um, and he's, but he's also, he's not rushing. He's like from, you know, I guess if you go back two or 300 years, he's, you know, a Cali boy in some way, shape or form, I mean, You know, um, he's, they, I think I referred to him as like, he was a woodsmen, his whole life, his whole family were woods woods people. So whatever their background was, I never really thought much about that, but I wanted, um, Olivia to be, um, I wanted to really kind of think of all the different people who came to San Francisco. Cause it's not as a melting pot. Right. It's like there were so many different cultures, especially during that era. I want, I didn't want to just have a whitewash, you know, um, community. So I really kind of tried to mix it up a little bit because then at first I was gonna make it way too complicated on myself. And I was like, oh, well, if you know, like Chinatown in Japanese town, they went over to these areas and they had their own community. And then you think of like, you know, little Italy and I'm like, no, why, why would I be writing? Oh no. I was like, they can all just come together. They can all just be like, you know, whatever they are. So, um, Yeah, I'm trying to like re um, so RAF that his name is Raphael. So I mean, that's because he's from, you know, uh, central America, whatever. Um, so I tried to obviously pick something that made sense for that. Um, but yeah, I don't know. I, I definitely, I try and pick the names in a way that makes sense to me, you know, that's kind of true to the character in their origin, but it doesn't always work out that way, which is fine too. Um, like link, I just, yeah. Oh, I didn't even think about that. That's very, um, yeah. Um, yeah, that is that, that is skinny. Uh, but then there was a Wyatt wasn't there. That was, yeah, there was a Y well, you know, uh, he's that one stands out to me. Of course. I was like, oh yeah. And, but anyway, so not everybody has a really. You know, like a really important name, but for the majority, I really try and pick something that needs something. So. Okay. Um, so then, um, let's see here. I want to make sure I get the, um, reader questions in. Um, but I have a couple more like whole series questions. So I mean, it's kind of whole series, but it kind of transitions to T to tightened tennis. So maybe we'll start with mine and then we'll go to some of your, a couple of your beater questions. So again, correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe that destined shadow and earth and Amber were dual perspective, right? Like guy and girl of the couple. Um, and there, there is a romance in each of these books. Right. Um, and, uh, but in Titan Tempus, we just have Somara. Um, so what was it about this story that made you decide, like I'm not going to like have. You know, the male POV or the partner POV, I'm just going to have some RSPB POB. And was it, and I'm like, pardon me? It's like, is it because you wanted people to not know who the love interest was going to be? Because there were a couple options. So, yeah, it's. I honestly, I can't remember if I went into it with a plan, but I, when I sat down, actually, I think I knew after I was outlining or doing the sticky notes on the wall, I would think I was pretty sure, like I had to just have one perspective, because at first it wasn't even about the love interests situation. It was more about what Eric was holding. Like I couldn't, I couldn't have the audience know that before she did that just didn't make sense to me. So I was like, okay, well it has to come from her, but I have, but originally, so one of the big secrets, cause when I originally plotted this, Eric wasn't even the love interest. So that was wondering that too. Yeah. So, um, it was pretty early on that I changed it up just because he was like, so talking about the universe talking, like he would not get out of my program. And so I was like, dude, you're supposed to be just this jerk-off that nobody likes like stop coming back. So I had to like tone him down a little bit and then this whole other storyline came up. So, um, I even remember I was chatting. Holly. Um, cause I think she was, I don't know if she was, I can't even remember why. I think I had some dude, cause she was working like reading earth, an Ember at the time or what it was, but I've told her, I was just like, I think I have to change like most of where the story's going to, because I can't get this character he's like taking over and that hasn't really happened to me before. Um, I really like, I kind of generally have like, there'll be some characters that pop up and I'm like, oh, maybe I'll give them a little, but this like changed my story. So yeah. Um, and then I was worried. I was like, oh my God. But then half is because I, but I'd liked it because rafting like just such the cliche obvious answer. And I liked that Eric changed everything. So anyway, it all obviously worked out and I really liked it. Um, but it, yeah, this book was full of surprises and like, like I said, I knew that going into it would just be her. But I, I just, I, as I started really working with the male characters, I was like, there's just no way that I can have either to, you know, do I do both guys and then that's weird. And then that comes too much. Yeah. And then, so anyway, yeah, it just all worked out this way and I've only written one other book like that and that's, um, untamed for the salvage north Chronicles, which also just felt extremely natural to do it that way. So definitely not my go-to, but I guess when the universe calls for specifics, I got to give it to them. So I really like it because I feel like when you're in both people's heads, it's like you're for me, at least not a native romance reader, um, which usually has the dual perspectives. Um, I feel like I'm always like, okay, I can like, see what you're both thinking. So like, can you guys just like talk already? So, but, um, yeah, so I really, I really liked, um, Tamara's being able to just like deep dive in with Tamara's head. Um, and Eric was, I actually thought it worked out really well. Having not being inside Eric's head at all, because he is so like reserved and quiet and just like, hold, hold this cards really close to his chest kind of guy. Well, and I think that's another thing I was thinking about this a while ago, about how in my stories, I usually like, I don't go into it saying I'm going to have a male and female perspective. But I think because generally in my stories they have, like, they have two completely different things going on that I have to show. It works out that way. Whereas in this specific one, like the thing about Luke and Kaia, they have to like you, I mean, there's two different places. Yeah. So there's no way I could get around that. Um, and so, and I guess I could have, I didn't have to do that with like going to Dustin shadow. I didn't have to do that, I guess, with, um, with Clayton and Joe, but at the same time I wanted, I wanted to write the Marshall so much and get dive into his character. I wouldn't been able to do that if I didn't do Clayton's perspective. So there's just like, it always has a purpose. And so I think that's why like, sometimes. When it like the last couple of times when, or the last, the only two times this has happened is when, you know, I don't feel that I need to have both of them it's because like Somara and Eric are in the same place. Like, yeah, he has secrets. I don't need, she doesn't need to know them yet. And other than that, like it's a little mystery and it just kind of helps. Right. There's nothing, there's nothing he could really bring to the story other than giving his own secret way so that she doesn't know. Um, she, she can't handle, she can't shoulder that. Yeah. So anyway, no, I totally good at though. Um, but yeah, I was thinking about that recently about how I, um, I feel like my characters are always doing so many, like, such different things that I think that's why I always feel like I have to, you know, I have to represent both, but anyway, um, okay. Anna would like to know, uh, how Somara came into existence. Um, hi, droplet it, put that in there. Dammit. I should've thought about this one, Tamara, come into existence. Um, I knew I wanted to do something different. I wanted you different types of survivors, people, different, um, ethnicities. I wanted to do, um, I wanted this story to be, I knew I wanted it to be more kind of more adventure than the other two. I wanted it to kind of be more like, especially cause it took place on the coast. I really wanted to kind of embrace like the whole sailor, you know, black sails, Vikings feel. Um, so I guess I just had, I mean obviously I write my main character is always female. So I mean, obviously that was kind of a no brainer, but I just feel like, um, I just really, I don't know why her whole story came really naturally to me. I really kind of wanted to push the boundary with her. Like I made, I gave her some pretty intense stuff to do and she was injured for like, I dunno. Yeah. Most of the books. Yeah. And I'm just like, I mean, there's a lot of stuff going on with her, but I also feel like those, like back in the day, it was just thinking about. And life's hard, you know? And so it made sense, and I really wanted to write that for her. Um, and I don't know exactly what you're going to do as soon as I was like reading the first chapter, I was like, God damn it. I know, I know. I mean, I wasn't really trying to hide it, but, um, I think for me, um, the scar, like how she got the scar was something that was very prominent in my head when I first got it. And I was like, this seems extreme. But then I was like, she's like, I dunno, I just really wanted to play with the emotional skills. Not just physical stars of like losing your family and your dad, like just all those things and what, you know, what extreme she might go to and that sort of thing. So I don't know. I just, I really wanted to get kind of gritty with her and, um, I don't know. It felt really good. I really liked it. I really liked it. I want to write more like that. I'm sure. You'll get to know. I know I'm excited for the other books coming up. Yes. Um, Helen asks, well, maybe I'll, I'm gonna say this one. Um, Sabrina asks, um, I would love to know more about Samira's parents. Okay. You feel like there's any kind of a novella or anything? Um, but I really, I wanted to make, like, I hint around to it about how, um, like Abraham, he doesn't necessarily have to be a likable character, but I wanted him to be somewhat understandable too. I felt like he was very realistic. Like I, yeah. I was like, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I think, um, so I think for him, I liked the idea of smart as mother being like the really nurturing one. I mean, I know a lot of mothers are in general, but I, I liked the idea of him pushing her way because he'd been like he'd gone through so much in the past already. He'd already had. You know, his first wife and he, you know, the horrible circumstances. I can't remember if I said it was the Raiders or not. Um, but, um, but like he'd already lost so much and I think he might've even lost a child. So I just really, I tried to give him a little bit of like, kind of a, uh, a reason why he's so standoffish and he puts a distance between him and his daughter. And I don't know, that just felt really interesting to write. Um, and I didn't have to do much deep diving with Olivia obviously because she, spoiler alert, dies very soon. Um, but, um, yeah, I mean, I don't know. I just may not have much of a story other than they complimented each other. And then he went off the deep end when she was gone because he lost someone else. And I liked that smarter, had the best parts of her mom. So that's good. Yeah. Um, Let's see, let's do, um, how many books? So, uh, I know the series, this series is complete. Um, so Helen asks how many books will be in this series. So the answer to that is like three plus on the Velo, right? Yeah. So, um, but I don't know if she's also referring to, I don't know. I don't know if people know that how many people know about the spinoff. So, yeah, so that was my next question, which is, yeah. So just to clear it all up, I had been trying originally, this is, I mean, this world is open. It's never going to close, like the forgotten lands. I'll probably write more, um, it's not closed forever or anything like that, but I, the next stories that feel important to me, aren't actually in the United States. And so I was trying to force them. Right them as part of the forgotten lands and I didn't feel right. Um, so because one is, so the first one that's coming up in the ruin lands is again, you know, I was talking earlier about, I'm calling it new London takes place in London. Um, kind of, it's almost kind of like ground zero for a lot of things, you know? So, um, it kinda picks up there. So again, overseas, the second book is going to be super pirating and biking us. And then the third one is going to be like all biking. So, um, it's all that stuff. It's just so far removed from the United States. It didn't feel right to have it as part of the forgotten lands. So that's why it's the ruined lands, but it's all the same world. Um, and then again, they're all open for more stories, um, more, you know, whether it's novellas or novels, but. For now I just, the stories I want to tell aren't in that area. So that's why I'm just, I'm, I'm, I'm jumping ship for going to another location. So, but you could come back. Yeah, for sure. For sure. I mean, that's the cool thing about making it a whole world is like, who knows, maybe we'll have a whole other sister series or spinoff series in the same world in a completely like jungle. Like everything book's going to be in the jungle. I don't know. But I'm just saying, like, I could do anything with it, which is really exciting for me. So. All right. So you're thinking about jungles as what you're saying. Apparently that just came off the top of my head, but yeah. Um, okay. So, um, Hmm. I already know what you're going to add you don't I was just thinking that she thinks I'm going to ask that, but I'm not asking that right now. Okay. I just wanted to make you sweat a little bit. Um, which, um, do you have a favorite book, couple main character from the forgotten lands? Yeah. Um, that seems a really easy for me, for some reason. I don't know what that says, but that was like an instant reaction. Yeah. Yes, actually Kaia and Luke are my favorite, I think, because they're so different. Um, and they really test each other a lot. So, um, I mean, there couldn't be any D I mean, they quite literally load each other and want each other to die. So, um, they have been, you know, fighting against each other, their whole existence. So I just really liked that. Um, Relationship with them and exploring them, figuring out who they are and, you know, getting to know the world outside of what they quote unquote, think they know. Yeah. Um, and so I don't know. I just really like that. It just feels really timeless to me too. So anyway. Yeah. I definitely, I, I think it's because I love Kaia so much too, you know, I don't know. I have a soft spot in my heart for her, so yeah. Does that make you want, like, what could you see yourself, like writing more? Yeah, maybe. Yeah. I actually writing the epilogue. It was a really long epilogue cause I kept thinking like, oh, there's so many little P there's so many like supporting characters and things. I want to explore about her actually, you know, like what does this civilization and the, um, the truce look like, you know, 10 years from now when she has, I don't know, like I definitely can like get and what does their world look like? Cause now they have to start, you know, co-existing and stuff. So I don't know. I could definitely see something. Maybe I always think like, oh, I shouldn't be like those authors to do like some sort of like holiday novella. And I'm like, what the fuck would that look like? We'll do a Victorian holiday in a dystopian post-apocalyptic world. I think that would be great. Yeah. Here's our little kitten shriveled cactus tree for Christmas. Um, Okay. Are you ready for it? I'm ready. I'm ready. All right. Uh, who would you cast in the roles of the main characters from each book? So I have to tell you, um, this whole world, the whole idea, as far as like, I guess I can't say world, but doesn't shadow the idea of Dustin shadow. I don't know if you remember us talking about this and we, I was in Washington visiting you this was years ago and we were driving around. Um, it was when we went to like the little Winthrop. Yeah. Yeah. And we went to the little village and stuff. We were talking, I was talking about how, you know, this whole kind of, um, Western, like. I dunno, post-apocalyptic world. And I think it was really, it stood out a lot in my mind since I watched book of Eli, that movie, like it has, it's one of my favorite movies. It just stuck with me how gritty it is and how raw and how like horrible the people are. And I remember thinking I want to write something like that. And so it's funny because, um, now that I'm saying that I just realized totally accidentally who my Joe person, like when I first started writing. Um, my Jo, I kind of want her to be like kinda rough and gritty, um, and feisty. And I feel like, um, Mila Kunis is, could be like that. And then I just realized she's actually in bookie. And I just put that, I just put that together. Um, that's how my brain works clearly. Um, but I, anyways, I kinda liked her and like a mixture between her Natalie Portman. Cause I also watched, um, Jane got a gun and it's a, um, Western with Natalie Portman and I was like, oh, between the two of them. And they're super, bad-ass like, that'd be super cool. Um, when I was writing it, they didn't look like either or Joe didn't look like either of them, but, um, that's kind of like in my head, that's kind of where I go. Yeah. Um, and it's funny because I want to say like, um, the Marshall. Obviously my inspiration kind of came, Gary Oldman is the one who is one of the people who's in book of Eli. And so he's, he's the one who gave me the idea for the Marshall in my head. That's how it ended up looking like, but he gave me the idea of like this guy who controls stuff, you know? And, um, in the movie, in that movie, he's controlling the Bible and it's about a book, but this is all about the water. Right. So, um, but I think for him, like, I feel like there's some people, even if Joe has been kind of wishy-washy, um, Even like Clayton. I remember thinking a long time ago. And just to know, I had to dive deep for this. Let's say I had to go back to my old Pinterest boards. Cause I didn't, I wrote this book like four years ago or something. I don't even remember more than that. I feel like this is a long time ago. Yeah. So I had to go back and I had like a really scruffy Liam Hemsworth, Clayton. Um, but then really the pur it's funny because I've noticed this with most of my stories is a lot of times the main characters don't actually have somebody. Um, but just Jessica Chasteen was always Scarlet to me. Um, her sister, um, and then the Marshall Marshall Cunningham was always kind of like an ed Harris type. So you must have been watching Westworld. Now this is way before that. Um, but, and then, um, Ashford, I, I was watching hell on wheels though, I think. Or maybe it was after. I don't know, but I remember Anson Mount, oh my God. This scruffy long version. Um, I think he was a little too old to be my Clayton. So I remember like, he's like, I remember thinking he is my Ashford, this is my Ashford. So anyway, like there's certain people that definitely kind of stuck with me, but, um, I love hell on wheels. I always think of as like such a great example of a, like a great, he's such a great character. It's like a good show. He's not a villain, like in breaking bad. He's a villain, not cancer Mount. He's not I'm breaking bad. I was going to say, I didn't know. He's no, no. I'm Bryan Cranston, the main character or the actor, whatever. Um, I dunno, I can't think of his name anyway, cause I'm in the middle of the podcast. So of course my brain will work, but like he is the villain. Like this is like the story of how he becomes a villain. But um, also can't think of the characters name, but Anson Mount in hell on wheels. Like he is like the perfect gray character where he like is doing terrible things. Like you see him doing bad things, but like you slowly learn like the reason why. And it's just, yeah, he's good. He's a really interesting. Yeah, sorry. No, no, no, no, no, no. That's totally true. I love that. You know, I love the great carrot as well. One of my all time favorite characters I've ever written is Marshall Cunningham because he fascinates me and I think he's the coolest gray character ever. So I totally get it. Um, but then I was thinking, um, so Kaia, uh, it's funny because with her, there was somebody that was very prominent in my mind, but I can't tell you, she has, because she was some model who, um, actually gave me an inspiration for what Kyle would look like. I just happened to find her, but she had these like really intense, really cool tribal tattoos on her chest and neck. And I was like, oh my God, that's so cool. Um, and then. So, again, I don't know who this model is or whatever, but, um, she was kind of my inspiration, um, for that. But, you know, I started using the, um, the art breeder awhile ago. So that's another reason why it's hard because for all tightened Tempus, like all those characters, they all had portraits that I created that are not famous people. You know what I mean? So it's really hard to try and try and put them in there. Um, but one person that I'm sure you'll probably find, I don't know if you'll find it fitting, but you'll know who I'm talking about. Abraham hands down from and tipis was always, um, Ray Stevenson. Uh, he's the one who, I mean, he's in everything. He was in black sails. Um, he was black beard. Um, he was in, uh, is that the, um, was also as he's been in so many things, I can't even think straight. I can't think of who black beard was. That's not the guy who died. Oh, I dunno. Um, all right. But he's in like all the period pieces too. What's his name? Ray Stevenson. Oh, he's also in D you didn't watch Vikings. So either he was, I did, uh, I watched like the first up until, um, Ragnar died. Okay. Then the boiler, you don't know who he is? He's in a later seasons. Steven's Steven's. Oh, is it Stevens? No, I see them. Okay, got it. Okay. Can you start a picture of Abraham? Um, oh, okay. And then he was in, um, tallies in like everything. Uh, was it he in, uh, apparently he's in Thor. Um, wasn't he in? He forgot about that. Uh, um, I don't know. What's it called? Maybe not. No, he must not have been anyway. Sorry. No, it's fine. Another one that was pretty clear. Um, or they came to mind when I was thinking about who would cast for Somara is a foreigns Pugh. Do you know who that is? Oh my God. I love her right now. I just watched black widow, like yeah. A month ago. And then I, now I have been like deep diving into Hawkeye. Yeah. I've seen a ton of stuff with her in her, and she's an amazing actress. I think she'd be a really good Somara. So I had never seen anything, um, with her in it, and I love her as Yelena. So like sassy. Yeah. She like tries to the landing. She has no, she was like, oh, I know that was what it was like sitting there watching it on my phone just because that's how you watch things. When you have a one-year-old and a three-year-old and I'm just like, laughing, like cackling, like that's so true. Like what what'd you do that? Why did you both like that? Yeah, it just like a pose. Yeah. Like I don't have there's nobody else really? That has a very specific person. It kind of like, it's funny because. I feel like it's way easier for me to find specific, you know, famous people for my supporting characters than it is for my leads. It's too hard. Yeah. Yeah, no, I can. I feel like I can relate to that, but anyway, so yeah, those are kind of the names that come to mind, but you didn't have anyone for Eric. I didn't, you know, and I, I mean, so I watched this show called Jamestown on BBC and there is a guy, um, an actor. I can't even remember his name, um, who I kind of, he plays the blacksmith and I really liked his character a lot. And so I kind of. Eric's some of this personality off of him, just because I felt like a, some sort of like a connection, but, um, they're also very different and, um, he's not what he looks like. So it was just like, you know, I don't know, just more of like the charisma or whatever you call it that, but yeah. I don't know. That's really hard. Yeah. I'm sure you don't remember Jacob, uh, from earth and Ember. Um, cause I know it's been a while since you read that one, but he's like Luke, he goes with Luke, he's like the, he's kind of like the timid, but really like brainiac, um, who kind of knows about, uh, Kayas Pepa. So people, so actually I do feel like you're tickling my brain. Yeah. So he, he ends up going with them and he gets held captive, um, with people and stuff like that, uh, for some reason. Um, and I know he's been in a gazillion other things, but um, I don't know if it's. Asha Butterfield ass anyway, Asha, Butterfield. Um, anyway, he's in, um, he was in, um, like sex education. He's in that he's like the main character. Um, I've had to fix her Ms. Jacob though, for some reason. Um, Brumfield he gets butter. Oh yeah. That's Butterfield. But anyway, I think, um, I feel, I dunno, I feel like he he's like really big blue eyes and he's just like super, I don't know what you call him, but, um, he's just so endearing. I just feel like he'd be really good. So I see it's ASA Akasha. I don't know, but I can see that. Yeah. He's ender in Ender's game. Yes. That's the one I was trying to remember what that was called. Orson Scott card. And I know that's obvious Orson Scott, Kurt. Yeah. That's obviously not the name of the show. Um, yeah. Cool. All right. Um, that's it. So, uh, I know the audio book for Titan Tempest is not currently out because you are just in the process of proofing it right now, correct? Right. Yeah. So find it sooner. Or the number just came out recently, right. Um, for the audio book and, um, so people can maybe in January be looking for tightened Tempest. Yeah. Uh, if my luck. Well, at least my audio book look of earth and Ember was approved in like three days from ACL. Yeah. It's like unheard of. And the one before that was just last month was, took three months for untamed. So I, I honestly, I don't know how they decide these things, but, um, but anyway, uh, yeah, so this, by the end of January, for sure, because like I said, I had it, so it's not going to take long at all. Um, all the books should be out and also the, uh, preschool born Santa scorn is also an audio book, so you can listen to that too. Great. Cool. And, um, can, can, um, people who sign up for your mailing list, they can get. Born of CNN scorn. Oh yeah. Actually they can get a Dustin shadow and born to Santa scorn free. I dunno how long I'm going to be doing that. I can tell you that, um, Dustin shadow, the price goes up. Um, it's free right now, but as of January 1st, it will no longer be free. So people want to grab that now, um, before January 1st and, um, Yeah, it will not be up for your mailing list either. Um, well, for now it is, but again, I don't know. I have a lot of free books. Uh, oh, cough, cough, cough. If anybody get on there. Yeah. I have a lot of free books right now for my, for my mailing list subscribers. So, um, I don't know how long I'm going to be offering all of them. I mean, I have a lot, so, um, definitely snag, you know, get on there now. And there's like bonus stuff too. I know. Uh, at the end of 10 and 10 best, you mentioned that there's a steamy or sex scene. Yeah, there is. Oh yeah. Yeah. There's also, um, a, uh, an entire chapter from, uh, RAF's perspective too. Um, that takes place, um, towards like months after. So I think it'd be really interesting for readers too, because it kind of, it's more of that piratey vibe, so hello. Cool. And it explores, you know, his relationship with his friend, Hector, Hector. So I was confused. Are they together? I mean, they need to be, if they're not, um, no, the way that I write it though, uh, initially I wanted them to be, but then it, I didn't, it wasn't really rape story. So the side of my head. It's rape because rape feels more piratey I know. Um, but Raphael is not, I don't know that didn't work, but anyway, um, but yeah, I, uh, they have a very long history together and they've been best friends and been through a lot. So I think that for them, or at least for Ralph, he's always had to protect Hector from his dad. So I think that he hasn't really allowed himself to really open himself up, I think is really what it is. I think he's in denial. Yeah. A little bit more of that. Oh, I was going to say like, you could always write another book about them. Yeah. I actually very piratey I actually outlined part of one, so I would be really excited about that book. So anyways, like I said, nothing's closed in any worlds guys. Yeah. I can, 100% relate to that. Clearly as I just revived a world. I know. Right. So anyway, but yeah. So I'll keep you guys posted. If I get a wild hair and decide to do any sort of. You know, all the things I want to do, all the things guys question is when, so people can, obviously they, so they can get, um, born of CNN, scorn, and Dustin shadow free on your mailing list. And also where else can they find this series? Uh, so all of the everything's wide. So, um, if anybody goes to my website is probably the easiest thing you would click on the book and it gives you links to all the retailers. So that's probably the easiest thing, but you can get it on, you know, you can do it through apple, iTunes, I books. Um, you could do Google play, you can do in Barnes and noble and, um, all those things. So yeah, there, and then, uh, for ruined lands, um, the first book is up for pre-order. Yes. And when is that one coming out? Uh, well, at least by June, but I have a feeling it's going to be out sooner, but okay. I gave myself some buffer room. Okay. I mean, tight and tennis. Wasn't supposed to be out. So I think the end or like December and I release it the beginning of November. So we'll all right. Cool. All right. I'm excited about. Yeah, I love me some ruins. Yeah. And this is, this is one of those things where I think it's going to be like Dustin shadow in the way that there's a lot of, kind of setup of the world. Um, it's not quite as adventury, but then the other two are going to be hardcore. So the first one is very kind of Gothic and lots of mystery and trying to figure things out and seeing the world as it is now for these people. And you said there's like a beauty and the beast kind of vibe, right? Yeah. It's kind of like beauty and the beast meets Jane Eyre, um, which is really fun. And, uh, it's like, it's, it feels very dystopian and Gothic. And, uh, let's just say that the beast is the, he's the called the slave collector. Good name. And, uh, she is a orphan of sorts. So, um, yeah. Anyway, it's fine. I'm excited mustard, black pepper. All right. So, um, where would you like people to, I mean, I know this is also your podcast, but where would you like listeners to look for online Lindsey phone.com? You guys can find me, um, my website, um, and then author ones, you poke everywhere else. So we'll link to it. If you're not tired of me already, you will be soon. All right. But, um, That's probably all for me. Um, shall I exit the podcast? Y'all starting in 3, 2, 1, uh, that wraps up this episode. Thanks again, for those of you who submitted questions. Um, that was really fun to answer those. Um, especially I feel like the forgotten lands is something I've been working on for a very long time and it feels really good that at least those three books are wrapped up and I can finally talk about them. So, um, yeah. So we'll be chatting next time with wild romance author. K Webster, aka Kristie about her newest release, Triple Threat. Um, she's been on the show. She was actually one of our first guests, maybe one or two. Um, so that's like episode one or two, which is really cool. Um, and at the time she had written. A hundred books. So I'm interested to see how, like what's your number now. Anyway, we're going to be talking to her next time. In the meantime, if you enjoyed the episode, please leave us a review review wherever you listen. And don't forget to join the no shelf control Facebook group and make sure you check the Patrion or sorry. There's will be a link to Patrion if you guys want to support us on patron, but don't forget to check the show notes because we're also going to have links to all the stuff that we talked about today or tonight. And until next time, happy listening and reading adventures. Everybody we'll chat with you soon. Happy reading.