S2 Ep3: A Discussion of The Shining Girls by Lauren Beukes and Shining Girls (Apple TV)

Authors Lindsey Pogue and Lindsey Sparks discuss The Shining Girls by Lauren Beukes and the adaptation of the book into the show Shining Girls on Apple TV.

WARNING: This episode contains ALL the spoilers about The Shining Girls (the book) and Shining Girls (the show).

BOOK RECS!
A Throne of Ruin by K.F. Breene
By a Thread by Lucy Score

OTHER LINKS:
Lindsey Sparks' spicy stories Patreon:
https://www.patreon.com/lindseysparks

CURRENT FREEBIES (at the time of episode airing):
The Darkest Winter by Lindsey Pogue
After The Ending by Lindsey Sparks & Lindsey Pogue
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Support us on Patreon:
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Lindsey Pogue's website:
https://www.lindseypogue.com/

Lindsey Sparks' website:
https://www.authorlindseysparks.com/

Transcript

0:01

Welcome to season two of No Shelf Control the podcast with books, booze, and banter, hosted by authors for readers because let's face it, we're all bookworms at heart. Oh, I forgot that. I read part of it. I was like, I'm not doing anything this episode. Hold on. I'm coming. I'm coming. Where is it? Oh my God. It's like at the very end. Okay. This season we will be chatting. And now my screen is not big enough. I can't see the whole thing. Um, this season we'll be chatting about, but just screen adaptations and trending book talk books. I'm Lindsey Sparks and I'm Lindsey Pogue, grab a cocktail, kick back and enjoy this. Wow. Welcome to this episode of season two, everybody. Oh, technical difficulties. I guess we could say. I mean, they weren't technical. They were just me. Yeah. User errors. I don't know whatever you want to call it, but yeah. So welcome to this episode of season two, no shelf control podcast tonight, but Lindsey's, we'll be discussing the book to screen adaptation of The Shining Girls by Lauren Beukes is out what we decided her last name. That's how I've been saying. Okay. We're good. Lauren. Don't take it personally. We can't really pronounce anything. I got to say I'm LP your hair looks really pretty. Oh, thank you. I got the grays covered today for sure. My style. Yeah. It's like every time I go in and see sassy shoe, spend the shoe, make sure she does it pretty for me. So at least I feel like a human once every three months. I know. That's when I go in to get my hair done or to get my hair cut is the only time my hair is styled. In like a three month period. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway. Yeah. Thank you very much. Um, I was like looking at the roots when, when she was doing it and I was like, oh my gosh, the grays. And I was like, I mean, I know that they're in is totally fine. Um, I really don't have issues with it, but I guess it's easy for me to say that because I just covered, but I told her, I was like, man, it's so weird. The, I can like see them like right off the bat because I'm just so used to not seeing them, I guess. Cause they're always blonde, you know? Anyway, well, I am almost 40, so I don't know right now. That's crazy. So weird anyways. How are you? This lovely Wednesday. I'm good. I am, uh, as we were talking about before the show, or before, before the show, before we started recording, I'm still struggling with my illness. Yeah. So, uh, if people notice any weird pauses or if any, like coughs or gross throat clearings accidentally make it through, I apologize. It is absolutely 100% me and. But I'm here. Yeah, no, that's good. I feel like there's a lot to unpack in this episode, so I know, oh my gosh. I feel like, I know we both watched the show with our husbands and we both had similar experiences. Yeah. So we read the book and we watched the show. Well, we listened to it. I listened to audio book. I'm standing. You did as well. Yeah. So, and then we watched the show, so it was just very interesting to compare them. And yes, I did make my husband watch the show with me and he was like, what the fuck is happening right now? And I was like, literally don't know, because this is not in the book. I guess this is good as mine. Um, but anyway, yeah, so we have a lot to unpack there, but before we get started are, you know, you're not drinking anything, adult beverage wise, but what are you on. Yeah. I still not feel it still about feeling the urge for wine, which is how you know that I'm not a hundred percent, cause I always want wine, but, um, I am drinking sparkling water. Good. Old Spindrift. It's a spent. Yeah, it's been drift my, my go-to. Yeah. How about you? Um, so I'm chugging along.

Uh, so it's 8: 4:09

00 PM here, so we'll end here, but I mean, like in

general, people listening at 8: 4:14

00 AM on like a Tuesday morning, it's

actually 8: 4:18

00 PM on a Wednesday night. Um, so yeah, I'm super tired. So, um, Dennis made me a sea breeze, which is a, um, cranberry and, uh, grapefruit vodka drink, but he put in a splash of. Like a fruit punch rockstar or something. I do not drink. Um, uh, what do they call it? Energy drinks on filter called. I do not drink them at all. So he, he hopefully used in moderation because I do want to get through this, but I do want to go to bed after race. So we'll see. I might stay up and watch some biking drama for the next four hours for all I know anyways. Um, but yeah, so that's what I'm sipping on. It's delightful. How refreshing? Yeah. Knocking lead group fruit, right? It actually tastes more like fruit punch from his stupid rock, but it's still good. It's just a little sweet. Um, what are you reading? Um, I know that we just finished this book, but what do you got? Anything else going on? Yeah, I am listening to A Throne of Ruin by KF Breene. It's the second. Um, I can never remember what the series is called. I want to say it's like Deliciously Dark Fairytales or something like that. Um, I mean, KF Breene is hilarious and like over the top with like the explicit scenes, it's just so fun. Awesome. It's just, it's like, this is unnecessary, but I like it. So I'm enjoying that. Uh, it's a super fun story. The first book is like, uh, um, dark fantasy beauty and the beast. Um, and then I don't know if this is based on if this one's based on another, it's not the same, very tale. It's the same people, but I don't know if it cause because I'm pretty sure the series is called delicious sleep, dark fairytales. Um, it makes me wonder if like each one is like inspired by a different, very tale. So I don't know. Um, and. Um, I don't feel like I'm reading anything else right now. I just went through all of the error. The errors for the song is scarabs and fallen stars, audio book, um, to send to, uh, one of the narrators. And, uh, so it feels like I just read that cause I was just listening through to like all the spots that, um, my assistant had marked, um, to like see if those were areas that we needed to pass on or not, because sometimes if it doesn't like change them the same way, I'm like, man, I'm there. Yeah, no, I totally get it. I totally get that. but I think that that's all I've got going on. Um, I think because. Because I am, um, in a, in a more like, I need to be in my head, needed to be in my own story. So I don't have like multiple books. Yeah. I was going through there. Oh, a phaser for awhile and it had a bunch of them. Um, I have a lot going on too. So between trying to fit in listening to this book and watching the show and then also, um, I'm beta reading for, um, and give her right now for her news on POC, um, story. And I also needed to read through city of ruin, uh, one final sweep. Cause I didn't do my print out of the manuscript this time. Like I usually do. Um, I don't know. I just didn't. I was like, I don't know if I can just cut that, you know, from my process. But then of course, as I was doing the read through the paper back, cause I ordered it early, um, I found a couple inconsistencies of like Eichler for like one of the like offshoot characters that are like sex in that. So again, I'm like, okay, I guess I need to start printing those key pages because onesy, um, anyway, not a big deal. I figured. You know, a betas and an alpha and four proofreaders, didn't pick it up. It's not even deal, but still got it. Um, but then I have been listening to as, for an audio book, like when I'm driving and stuff, I'm listening to my first Lucy score book. And if anybody listens to pretty much any of the author podcasts, you have probably heard who she is, who she is. And I've never I've hear about her all the time, but I've never actually read one of her books and it is so witty and good. I'm loving it. So I think I'm definitely a fan now. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. She's always very inspiring to listen to. Um, it's like one of those things when you're an author who has little kids and you listen to authors who don't have kids and they're like talking about all the stuff they can do and cause she doesn't have kids, um, it's always kind of like, yeah, That'd be cool. That'd be nice. Yeah. Well, must be nice. I mean, I don't, I would never like trade my kids for, you know, but it's just always kind of like, yeah. Like I could see why that would work if you had like a whole day. Yeah, I know. It's, it's really cool. And her books are really long, so that's kind of nice too. I don't feel like I'm getting, you know, just my, you know, a lot of romance authors will just do like 50 or 60,000 words and that'll be like a big cliffhanger, but it's like, it's a, I'm on chapter 61 and I still have like two out of the audio book. So I mean, or maybe an hour, but anyway, I mean, it's, it's, it's decent in, it's like contemporary romance or yeah, it's romcom. Um, but it's also really steamy, so it's really nice balance, you know? Um, so anyway, the narrators are great and stuff, so, uh, I've been having a lot of fun with that. Um, it's definitely something fun to pass the time. So, yeah. Um, just because I'm just, yeah, I'm kind of in a lot of different worlds right now. So anyway, what have you been working on? Um, I am, I just finished the beta revisions for, uh, blood of the broken. So the fifth Atlanta's legacy book, um, this afternoon. Uh, and, uh, yeah, so I'm just going through getting my last few, like parentheses items, things that are like big F use to future me, which is actually present me. Right. And then I just want to like punch past me in the face for doing that, but it helps the story come out faster. So, um, I did officially name the fungus. Oh, what's it called? Oh, I can't remember. Um, uh, I don't know. Um, it's, uh, inspired by Greek Greek mythology. Um, Uh, it has something to do with like hallucinogens and, uh, what's hilarious is you don't remember, but it's in the script, like 700. I know, I know. Well, cause I just copied it and I was like, I picked the spots where it made the most sense to just paste it in. So, so yeah, I I'm sure I'll remember what it's called after I read it out loud at that point. It'll probably be the next except for you. Yeah, well actually, no. So the next step for me is, uh, next week I'm just going to be going through, well, actually there's two more little steps next week. I'm going to be going through, through the manuscript with pro writing aid, um, uh, just to like clean it up, make it better. Um, just grammar wise and word choice wise and stuff like that. Um, highly recommend that if there's any. Writers or authors who listen and don't have that as part of their process. Um, I know my, uh, copy editor has, she said she could tell a difference. Um, when I started doing it, she was like, I was going to ask you if you were doing something different because it's, I usually hand over pretty clean manuscripts, but she was like, this is really clear. So I think it makes her job a lot easier and she can focus more on like more important stuff. Yeah. Um, not that she's like, that's not that she, I mean, Holly is an amazing editor and she does more than a copy of it when she does her edit. So, um, but, uh, I am tomorrow and tomorrow and Friday. So today's Wednesday, tomorrow and Friday. I am writing my life. Extended seams. So it's just going to be like two solid days of just writing your blood of the broken specifically. So there's like four steamy scenes, and then there's going to be a bonus epilogue. Um, and I did not even think about this, but one of my, one of my patrons was because I was asked, I'm asking, I launched a Patrion. Oh, I should mention that. Um, I'll mention that in a second. But one of my patrons, um, at, when I asked them for what, like what stories they want me to write for next month, they were like, right. As something from Haiti's perspective. And I was like, oh my God, I could totally do that as one of the extended scenes, because the whole book is from chorus perspective, but these are the extended scenes. And so I was like, oh, I'm going to do it. That's fun. Yeah. So I'll probably just write the whole scene from Haiti's perspective. Um, And then extend it beyond where it is, um, from chorus perspective. So I'm really excited about that. That's going to be really fun. Um, and then I did last Wednesday on July, June, June 1st. What month is it on June 1st? I launched, um, my Patrion, my new Patrion, cause I had an old Patrion that I canceled last fall. Um, but I launched a new Patrion, which is, uh, at its core for me to post spicy stories. Um, so it's, um, it's two different things, really. So it's, uh, the last name Parkland, which is a spicy, it's a paranormal romance, reverse harem cereal. Um, which LP had the, I don't know if like joy or she had the dude behind the scenes Zach's best like however many, like seven years ago. Yeah. Uh, I totally revamped this like totally ridiculously over complicated thing that I had written like seven years ago as a, um, paranormal erotic paranormal romance probably is what it was called then now it's I would just say it's like just extra, it's just extra spice or reverse harem, paranormal romance. Like people can get away with so much more now. Um, anyway, so I've got that cereal on there. Uh, and then I am doing just like extended scenes from books that I've already published. Um, any, any like spices or steamy scenes that faded to black, um, or anything that's like kind of like vaguely referenced all of that stuff is like up for possible expansion in this. Um, yeah, so I'm really excited about it. It's really fun. I'm excited to like compile all of the suggestions that all my patrons have come up with and let them vote to see which. We'll actually be the patrons choice story. So I like that giving them the option of what they read next. It's going to be really fun. Cool. So yeah, that's all the stuff I'm working on and I will put a link for that in the show notes. If anybody wants to check it out, um, it gets a little explicit to say, now it's called what sparks and spice, sparks and spice. Well, I guess it sparks plus it's just, if you go to page Patrion is just author Lindsey sparks. Yeah. That's fun though. Yeah. I like the name on, um, yeah, I still need to read the first I started the first episode that you sent me. Um, but I've just been so busy. Um, but I already, it was funny. I, yeah, I don't see very many similarities from before, but then at the same time that I read that so long ago only a couple of things I remember. So that whole, that. I pretty much totally rewrote. It was like vaguely, vaguely inspired by the original like opening chapter. Um, and then the rest of it was like pretty much new. And then the second, the second episode is, is much more closer to a much more closer, is much closer to, I do words. Good. Um, uh, as scene that was in, um, it's basically like one solid scene. Maybe it's like two scenes. Um, that was from the original, original serial. So, um, just with like a bunch of details changed and stuff added in and language cleaned up and language dirty down. So. That's fun. That's a nice little fun thing to be able to dapple into your yeah. And now it's fun to like, as I'm writing each thing I'm thinking, or it's like, as I was writing blood of the broken, you know, I was thinking of like all the different scenes that I could expand for Patrion that, that are not like necessary scenes for the book. So I wouldn't include them in the book because they don't move. Like if the plot or the characters development forward, they're just super fluid. Is that the word? Um, but there's still things that people would want to see, you know, like if they're big fans. Yeah, no, I like, I like that. That's fun. Anyway. Yeah. So that is everything, um, that I have been working on since our last episode. How about you? Um, what am I working on? I have been, um, I have only have a couple chapters done of, uh, the snow white and the Huntsman biking story that I'm writing the land of fury. But, um, I am in the middle of, um, like a read through before I send, um, my, because I'm doing my revisions for my alpha copy of the miner's inspired Robin hood tale, the, um, that's the sea of storms. So that is going smoothly. And I should have that today. This was the next week or two. So that feels really good. Um, This was a very unexpected story for me, it's much steamier than the other. It's only one perspective. I'm also excited about my books are. Yeah. It's like I kind of write, and I know I've told you this before. I don't know if I've ever mentioned it, um, on podcasts, but I, I'm not consistent with how many POV's I do. But it's, it just has to do with like the situation and what I need to show and what care I need to know and what we can't know about characters, you know, it's like, it's just like, it's just part of the craft of the story is to if I need them or not. And like tide and Tempest, I didn't need, uh, another POV. This one, I don't need another POV. Um, I mean, people might be let down, but, um, I don't know. It just didn't feel natural, you know? So I don't think there's going to be a third or a second, third. I don't think there's going to be a second POV, a male in the, um, inland a fury either, but we'll see, I'm, I'm it's outlined, but, um, you know, things have a way of changing, so we'll see how it goes. But yeah, this one was very surprising. I wasn't expecting to get teary-eyed writing this one and I wasn't expecting to fall in love with, um, my two main characters either. So I'm very pleasantly surprised with sea of storm. So, um, we'll see. We'll see if they can, if they can match. City of ruin. Cause I know everyone, a lot of people like that one, so yeah, we'll see. Um, I'm sure there are plenty of other things, but that's the, those are the two big things. Um, I'm really trying to stay focused on writing and um, my get my revisions done. Yeah. And then I have my release coming next week. So I've just been like trying to send books to Patrion people and, you know, getting, getting all the art copies out and all that stuff. So it is, I'm excited to finally get this city of ruin in people's hands because it's exciting. I'm real. This is the I've said this before, but this is the book I'm the most giddy about that I've published. So it makes me, it's just exciting. Are you doing any kind of release day celebration? Um, I'm going to do, I'm doing a, a special giveaway bundle for my newsletter peeps. Um, I'm going to do a giveaway on my face, on my Facebook page. Um, it's just going to be like assigned, you know, paperback or whatever. It's not gonna be like a really cool bundle or anything that I'm doing with swag and whatnot for the newsletter. Um, But, yeah, I'm not going to do a huge, uh, giveaway this time. Um, just because I have people aren't familiar with the series, you know, so I want to wait, I'll probably do something big towards the end when people actually started greeting the books in the series and they can really get excited about it, you know? Um, so anyway, but I have a lot of really cool swag coming in, so, and it's fun to, I see all these orders coming in for paperbacks and stuff, and I get excited because I can't wait to send people the new stuff that I have coming in. So anyway, that's, that's like the fun, all three stuff. It's not just bookkeeping and, you know, writing that like we can get excited about. So that's kind of fun. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, that's me. Um, Yeah. Should we dive into our, our discussion today? Yeah, I will go ahead and read the description. Um, this is for the book specifically. I'm not going to read anything about the show. We'll talk about that. But, um, so the shining girls and, um, again, the, um, author is Lauren. What did I a beaut mucus? I don't know. I feel so bad anyway. Yes, Lauren. Uh, and I, Harper curd finds a key, um, on two of times, but it comes at a cost. He has to kill the shiny girls, bright young women, burning with potential Curtis stocks, them through their lives, across different areas until 1989. One of his victims, Kirby mez, Rocky, um, survives and starts hunting and back working from a former homicide, working with the former homicide reporter who was falling for her Kirby races against time and reason, uh, to unravel and impossible mystery. So there you have. Um, we are heading into spoiler territory. So we're going to spoil the crap out of this book. We really are the show in the book. So warning, warning, danger will Robinson do not move forward if you don't want to know what are you talking about? Yeah. Um, okay, so I was telling you earlier, I, at first I kept thinking, okay, well, we should talk about, let's talk about, what's different about the show and the book, but then three things. It's so many things that I had a hard time. So let's just start with, um, let's see, where did, where should we start? Do you want to start with the main character or do you want to start with like the issue of like the timeline? Cause it could kind of go either way as far as like a big major. Shift. So what do you think, I mean, we can start with the timeline or, um, yeah. Okay. Well, let's do that. So just to, there's a timeline that definitely it jumps throughout the story, right? When you're, when you're listening to the book, um, it goes back and forth between, you know, the eras, I think. So. I bet I've been thinking about this. I think that the book, um, but not the show. Definitely not the show, but the book follows Harper's timeline. Yes. Does that seem correct? I think so. Yes. So it starts when yeah, like, and Harper's timeline is non-linear. Yeah. Like Harper's jumping all over the place, so maybe we should take a step back and before we've been going to. And say overall, did you enjoy this? I don't want to say this book because we're talking about tutoring things, but did you enjoy this story or? I did. I enjoyed both for different reasons. I had things that I didn't like about both that were different, different things that I didn't like about both. Yeah. Yeah. So I struggled with both of them. I'm not really fan of either. I think for me. And that's the reason why I wanted to kind of go back is because there is timeline jumping and especially listening to a third person story with time jumping with like five or six different names. Yeah. That was kind of confusing for me because then you have to try and recall, well, wait, what, what year was the last person in? You know what I mean? So, uh, that was kind of difficult for me, but, um, I, I, in general, I'm not a huge fan of. Like overlapping and changing timelines just because, you know, um, but overall like that, that is a huge thing that happens. And so that's why, when we're going into, we're talking about the difference between the two. Well, can I just jump in and say like, so basically Harper, the guy who he was like this depression era guy, and he discovered this house, um, where he finds a key to this house and the house allows him to like travel to different time periods within a certain window. So it's something like 1920 something to 1993 or something like that. And he doesn't understand why he has this limit. Yeah. So, and that, and he can't, well, I don't know. Um, there was a lot of stuff that was not explained. That is another thing I did. I mean, it, he can't make it past 1993 because. But the house stops existing and he's dead basically is the reason, you know, so spoiler, he dies in the end. So, um, and I walked, I listened to the book before I watch it. So I might get this confused, so correct me if I'm wrong, but in the book he's they keeps calling him salt. Like he's a hobo, right? Like he's not even didn't they didn't he say like, wasn't he in the hospital because he hurt himself because he felt he like gotten to a, he said he was living in a Hooverville. Um, I mean, we've gotten a fight with the hope he finds that that dam was used multiple times. So now I'm just trying to remember. I mean, he was, he did definitely seem like he was transient. Like he was, he didn't like have a home. Um, but, uh, yeah, like he was like a very depression era. Um, yeah. Like X soldier, like, or veteran from world war one. Um, and he had like, uh, of what do they call, what did they call warrior soldiers, heart or whatever. Like, he definitely was like suffered from the war, but he also is just like a psychopath. Yeah. So, well, what's interesting talking about the timeline is in the book, you know, in the beginning you kind of see or closer to the beginning, you see his timeline and like you said, it's more linear in the show. You don't even know what the hell he's doing and how he's doing it until the very end. Um, which is very interesting. I was actually trying to figure out if it was more confusing, Or if it helped having read the book to watch the show. Yeah. Because like you were looking like you were looking for the connections and it's like, it was interesting because I felt like they, um, there were certain things in the book that they repurposed in the show. I felt like, like the, um, the glow girl. Um, uh, what was her name? Jen? No, not Jenny. Um, um, Kara know something with the one who worked here. Okay. Right. It's not the Caroline or something. I don't know. But, um, but it's like his child in the, in the show, it was like his childhood friend, um, who he fell in love with or was obsessed with. Um, and in the book, there were two different characters that I felt were combined into this person, um, at, uh, the nurse and then the glow girl who was that. The same. She was a dancer and she painted herself with radium to make herself glow in the dark. She was like a boudoir dancer. Um, but yeah, I, I maybe they just felt like they needed to like simplify that part. Um, yeah, I think like something with the, with the both, well, at least with the book, it made a little bit more sense why he was killing the girls. They had like a spark, something about them that like connected them to the house. And I feel like to the house, um, this like magic house, um, that we never really know why it is the way it is. Um, but I feel like parts of the show kind of like filled in some of that for me. Um, in terms of the astronomer was her name. Jenny was Jenny. That was Jenny or Jen. Or whatever it was Jenny, Jenny, I think so. Um, but she has her theory about, yeah. About how there's like entangled particles or something. I don't know. Um, somehow they're like, it's almost like, because he killed them. They're all entangled. So they're tied to the house. I don't know. It's like very vague. Um, it's definitely not. I always like to have an explanation for things and like, even in the show, I know I'm like going on a big old monologue right now in the show with like the timeline and the time loop I wanted you remember in the final episode it opened and we get to see like, I want to say he's German. Um, the guy from like 18, 17, the guy who he heals. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Um, so he discovered this guy in like 1840 something discovers this house. It's definitely, shouldn't be where it is. Um, and when he gets in there, there's a dude who's wearing like very, I don't know, late eighties track suit and sneakers. And I was so irritated that they didn't tie that back in and have that be someone we knew. I was like, oh, maybe it's going to be Leo, who is an added character for the show. Like, why wouldn't they have like, just like tied up that loop that really frustrated me in the show that there was just this random person that we don't know who it is, who had hung himself and said like all yours in a note too. Yeah. Like you're my guy, a century and a half. I mean, obviously this house is wreaking havoc on. I mean, people are dying because of whatever this house can do for whatever reason. Um, for sure. And I think, you know, just for listeners who haven't read or watched anything, um, there is a lot of time jumping, like we were saying, I mean, you have between the show and the book, you have people in pre-war era, then you have the war area in the depression, and then you will all the way to the nineties. And it's all, every chapter is a different, it goes between a few different characters, especially in the book. And you're in different timelines for each one. And, you know, there's all these little hints in these puzzle pieces that you have to put together throughout the whole story. Um, while there are less characters in the actual show, um, they added a whole other layer. To it, that weren't in the book. So that's what we talk about Kirby and her like, and Kirby is the other main character from the book like it's Kirby and Harper is the CR serial killer who could jump through time because of this house. And then Kirby is the victim who didn't die. Yeah. And so that seems to like, cause begin to cause the unraveling, her not dying. And in the, in the, I'm sorry, in the book, when he discovers that she's still alive. I really, I really, that scene really stuck with me. He was like, he like, it threw him off so much. No, no, no. Like she's supposed to be dead. And then he gets obsessed with her. Like he need like it, he cause he can feel things unraveling and like it's all falling apart. And the, and he, then he realizes that she didn't die. And so then it's like, he has to, he feels like he has to find her fix it. He has to fix it because he can feel himself losing kind of like control of the yeah. The map or whatever. So the thing to the thing that for me, that I was trying to figure out the whole time, which again, they kind of allude to Jenny alludes to the strong number when she comes, when she's talking about, you know, everything being so connected and relying on each other is so the difference between the book and the show is that curvy after she survives her world, obviously she, it goes through trauma. So her role, her life is never the same, but it literally is never like she could wake up one day and she's in a house she's never been in with a husband. She doesn't, she never married. And her mom is, instead of she's some rocker chick, she's like some singing at some church choir, you know, like, like there's so many things like that switches. So there's this whole other level of. Craze that we're trying to figure out, you know, watching the show, which is really, I'm trying to figure out why they did that. Like what, like, it's interesting to an extent, but it's also really convoluted if you read the book. It was, um, I think that, that, that element was the thing that makes having read the book. That's the, makes it more confusing when you're reading the book and watching the show and you're trying to find the connection or you're waiting for that to start happening in the book. And it never does because that's not in the book, but I actually loved that part of the show. I thought it was really cool. It was really interesting. Um, I don't think I'm necessarily happy with the way they explained it, but at least they, like you said, they did give some sort of, they tried, you know, they didn't give some sort of an ex. It definitely was like, Willy nilly explanation. I mean, very vague. Yeah. Well, if one thing changes, then something else has to change too. You know, it's almost like they said the butterfly effect, but they never actually say that. It's almost like that's kind of what I think. I don't know what the thing is. My, my understanding is that because Kirby is like tied to the house, even though she doesn't know it exists, but because Harper kind of like Jenny says, like they're all entangled Harper tried to kill her. She didn't die. So now she's tied to the house and his timeline. And so she's outside. She's no longer a part of the like, you know, shifting timeline or whatever. Like she. The people who are still inside the timeline and not tied to this magical house, they can't see that stuff when it changes, but she can, because she's tied to the house, like she's, she's outside of it kind of. And then only when Jenny misses her death day, does she become helped? Her, helped her now she's outside of it too, Um, so do you think. I was getting, I don't know if it ever actually came out and said it or not, but for the show, um, and this is so funny because it's not funny. It's actually really difficult to even talk about this book as it is watching, watching the show and reading the book. I can only imagine anybody listening to this who has never watched. I know I'm are they talking about right now? Yeah. So we apologize. This is a very confusing situation. Um, but I was just like, so is it your understanding that every time Kirby's world shifted? So suddenly she had a husband said she had a different car, suddenly, whatever it was. I mean, she never rubbed Harvard on me, um, that had something to do with Harper and his timeline shifting and changing timeline. Because otherwise, why, why, like that's what I'm trying to figure out is cause like he said, remember when he told her he was like, No, no. And that was when Dan's car changed and yeah, but it took her a long time to figure it out too. And so I think that they did a really good job of making Kirby, um, kind of an unreliable narrator in the fact that she has no idea what's going on. She feels like she's losing her mind. She doesn't feel like she can talk to anybody. Like I, and I also about Kirby and her Kirby in the book is very, um, different. Uh they're. Yeah. They're like totally different characters. I would say she's more of like a static character in the book. She doesn't really have like a growth arc or anything. Right? Yeah. Kirby's transformation in the show. Amazing and Elizabeth Moss is amazing anyway, so yeah, so I wanted to bring that up too. I a hundred percent agree. Um, I think that she doesn't have, she's very consistent in the book, whereas in the show she's very, like, she starts dresses me out. She gives me anxiety, honestly. Like when it first started out, I was like, I feel like she's much darker when in the start of the show, okay. Kirby has survived in something horrifying. Like he Harper who, she doesn't know who he is at this point. Um, but he ha he attacked her, killed her dog. And, uh, while she was out walking her dog and that whole scene, I was going to talk about that. But, um, and then he tried to gut her, like, he, he did got her essentially. She just didn't die, you know? And she survived. Yeah. So she has this like. Huge scar. Like her, her intestines were outside of her body. I mean, like she was gutted. Yeah. And so I felt like it was a lot more realistic. How Kirby was at the beginning of the show then how Kirby is in the book? Like, I didn't, I didn't, I mean, unless she's just like masking, um, but in the book she's like a very kind of punky. Bubbly. Like I was like, but also keep in mind too, in the book, she also has that whole other level or not in the book. Sorry, I'm confused everyone in the show. She also has a whole other level of everything changing. Remember she has that diary this year, that journal, she keeps it, all the things that it keeps changing. So there's that whole other level of insanity too, that she's dealing with. So yeah, she's a much, she's a much darker character. Um, and I think, um, amazing casting, right? Like she did that and I'm pretty sure, I think, I think Elizabeth Mazda is the one who directed that. Did she? I think she early, she did at least one episode. I don't know if she did the whole show, but she was clearly in that to win it. You know, like she was in there. I already loved her from Handmaid's tale. So like, she is really good at playing women in the horrible situations that, so yeah, there are characters were, were very different. Um, And I definitely think the casting was on point because it was, as far as the show, it was very, it felt very visceral. And I don't know, like just her in general, like I said, she kinda just, just watching, I think that's another reason why I was like, not a huge fan of the show. Like I was interested, but I was also like, every time I w I finished watching that show, I just felt like, like gross and depressed. It was heavy. I know. And I just wanted to be like, can I just like, watch the land before time or something? Like, I didn't really watch them for a time. That was the first thing came to my mind. Anyway. I was just like, this is just not what I want to watch it right before I go to bed, you know, like it was just super deep and creepy. So, um, I really did enjoy though, like, by the end of the show, Kirby was like, oh yeah, she was like, she was a badass. Yeah. And she, like, she had confidence. She was outsmarting him. Yeah. And she was, I mean, Obsessed in their own ways. Yeah. She's obsessed to figuring out and stopping Harper from what he's doing once she, especially when she figures out who he is. And then he's obviously obsessed for other reasons, Clara, sorry. Oh yeah. Clara, the blonde. Yeah. Sorry, the dancer. That's who she's talking the dancer, the glow girl. Um, yeah, so I want to say this because Harper, I was like, man, whatever. And the book like he was at the bad guy, Jamie bell was amazing. Choice for him. I was like, oh my God, this is the creepiest fucker I've ever seen. Like, oh my gosh, they did such a good job. And he did such an amazing job with that role. He was so getting, I love him. And so many things he's been around for so long. He's been in all these like historical fail, turn the sun. He's like some like creepy, like crazy. He was so, and oh, and he's like, I remember that scene when he sees, um, is there was her name, Julia or Julie, um, the social workers. Um, and he's like, you shouldn't wear your hair like that. And she's like, don't touch me. And she was like, who the fuck is this guy? He was just like, every like misogynistic, like, I mean, he's from the twenties. He's exactly. But he's also creep. Like he's also a psychopath. I mean, he totally was creepy and like. The things he would say, oh, like when, when he killed Clara and I loved it the way that they seeded that in an earlier episode, by the way, when they had him lie on the bed and there was like that. And you're like, and then finally in a later episode we see she's got her like glow powder on her and he ends up strangling her on the bed. And that's where that stain comes from. But he, or when, when he says like, you always did before, or like, w like he said, he slips up every once in a while. And he'll say something that cues him, the other person who, you know, that he is messing when in town and time going back and forth in time. Yeah. And she catches on, which is really cool. I like that. She's like, why don't I remember it? And then he's like, she's like, how many times have you brought me here? Why don't I remember it? Well, because it kills you. Yeah. So not only is Harper like a total mind, but he like just the show in general. I don't know. It it's, it's intense. I definitely, if people like thrillers, I mean, now that we've given everything, it's, I mean, it's worth it to watch, but yeah, it's definitely not my normal genre. Um, okay. So we agree that Harper was amazing. Um, I didn't really have, I don't know if it's because of those told in third person or not from the story standpoint in the book, but I didn't really have any feelings one way or the other for most of the characters. Um, whereas I feel like I definitely got the creepy vibes from Harper in the movie. I definitely had a lot more, um, connection with the characters in the show, um, because. I don't know, I just don't connect very well with third person, I think is part of the problem. Um, and it wasn't like a super close third person either. Yeah. It was very detachable again and there was multiple characters, so it wasn't even like you can just try and get invested in, you know, Caribbean Harper. It was everybody. Yeah. overall, um, I think that I'm trying to, so the other, I'm trying to think of the other characters that weren't in it. So Leo was added to the show, but he wasn't in the book. Dan was in both, but there was no room, no real romantic ties to Dan. Like, not like it wasn't the book as far as in the show and Dan's case. It was new for the show. Um, and Kirby's sometimes husband yeah. Was new for the show. Rachel was pretty different. Rachel was in both, but she was different. Rachel, wasn't nearly as significant of a character in the book. Yeah. That's Kirby's mom. Yeah. Um, and I liked the addition of the animal character, the changing, the changing animal Grendel, the animal that kept changing, transforming from cat to dog. The little dog to big dog. Yeah. As the world shifted. Oh yeah. I guess that was the same quote-unquote animal the whole time. Huh? I was just like, why is her dog keep cheating? Why don't you have a cat now? It was so stressful though. Like when. When she, one of the, one of the like reality shifts and all of a sudden she had a husband. I was like, I feel so stressed out for her. I know. Right. And it was his birthday and she was supposed to do all these things and she's like, wait, what? And then he's like, oh, that's my, you're supposed to do all these things for my birthday. And she's like, uh, she's like, meanwhile, her entire life just turned upside down. Yeah. How do you, I mean, that just you a lose, lose your mind, just trying to put yourself in her position the whole time. Um, even Clara's character changed, right. Because Clara in the book, Clara, was she, was she, uh, I can't remember if she was a longtime friend or not. No. He saw the girl, the glow girl, um, at the hospital. That was the first who saw her. That was supposed to be Claire. Okay. All right. Slash ETA. I mean, at O the nurse who he also met at the hospital. Um, yeah, which actually, when you went into the hospital in the book that wasn't from Kirby, right. That was from the fight with the hobo people. Yeah. That was the, from the fight with, um, but that was before he found the house. Yeah. So, and then he found the key in the coat that he stole from a woman after he strangled her in front of her kid. I mean, he's a terrible person. Oh my God. I don't even remember that part anyway. Yeah. Um, okay. Yeah. I was just trying to get all the courtesy of what kind of characters. Um, I did really like, uh, there was a weird change from the book to the show that I didn't understand, um, Dan, the reporter that like criminal reporter or whatever, um, he. Like Spanish or something in the book for two years, I think Dennis Portuguese. Oh, okay. And then they made them already in the show. He was 14. He's speaking Portuguese and Spanish. I didn't understand why they made that shift. I thought that was weird. I dunno. But also they may him, like, I don't remember. They made him like a raging, like druggy alcoholic. Yeah. I also don't understand that. I was like, I feel like this is a little bit cliche. Yeah. So I wasn't sure why they made that. There were just some changes that they made. Maybe they were trying to make him more engaging. I don't know. I liked his character in the book. Um, yeah, I don't, yeah. I don't know. I mean, they made F all the characters were just a little bit darker in the show. I think, you know, one of the scene I kept waiting for that never came was they arrested Harper and the book and at one point, but then they had to let him go. Cause they had zero proof because. He's in an odd timelines, right. That none of that was in the store. The show that I remember he was never arrested or anything, I don't think as a suspect. No. Um, I don't think so in the show. Yeah. So anyway, I thought that because I kept waiting that thing is like, that's going to be really cool to see how they do that because you know, the whole time they're trying to figure out who is this guy nobody's believing Kirby. So I'm just waiting and waiting and waiting for them to bring him in and then be like, oh, this is the guy, but we have nothing to hold him because there's no proof because none of them makes sense. So they had to let them go and then it never came. So I felt like that was kind of a cool scene in the book that I wish they would've put it in the show. Yeah. But anyway, um, okay. So, I mean, I know we've kind of touched on everything, but based on, um, the book, cause now that you know, we like, so we we've read and watched both. What is your favorite thing about the. Um, I wrote down multiple things, so that's fine. And one of them, um, okay. So I really liked in the book, I liked that there was the extremely slow little romance, but I liked that there was like a connection between Kirby and Dan and I did, if they did kind of start to get there at the, in the very last episode, um, I felt like when she like sits on the bar at the very end, she sits on the bar stool next to him. Um, but I liked that it actually. There was a kiss at the end of the book. So I liked that, um, a little more lightness that would have been around that out. Um, I really liked that there was some stuff I liked that the reality shifts in the show. So I that's like one of my favorite things about the show, but in the book I thought, um, the Kirby. Okay. So it's horrible to say this, but Kirby is like attack scene. Um, and the dog, that whole scene really stuck with me and like the dog trying to save her yeah. In the book, the dog trying to save her, um, the dog did save her, essentially the dog, the dog dies in this book. Um, but, uh, yeah, I just, like, I felt like that was one of those moments when I was listening to it where I just had to like, stop what I was doing. And it was just kind of. Yeah, that's true. And then they kind of brushed over that in the show. Yeah. And she had a little dog, so that little dog wasn't going to, um, yeah. And, uh, in the book I liked seeing the other girls, even though I didn't really feel connected to them. It was still interesting to see the different times and the different, just like how different they were, um, from each other. Um, and then I wrote down for the book and for the show that I liked the endings, but they were so different. Um, I really liked the way that the ending of the book was wrapped up, um, with like it's different, it's so different because I think that the issue is that the Kirby character is so different in each of them. So like in the book. She, um, there's like this whole big fight scene. And you know, for a second, you think Dan is going to get stuck in dying in 1920 or something like that. Um, and she like burns down the house, essentially kills. She kills, um, Harper and burns down the house. And then we learned that Harper is the house or something like that. Like very confusing. Uh, but I actually really liked, I did like that. It was like a little bit tinier in the book, but I liked in the ending of the show that that Kirby basically becomes Harper. Yeah. She's in the house and she does, she says his lines. She does his stuff to him, the stuff that he was doing to the girls she does to him. And now he is the one experiencing the reality shifts. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. She's definitely like at the helm by the end. Um, and like you said, it was nice that there was just that little whisper of, uh, you know, potential romance between them just because I feel like they've been through, they were, went through so much in the show. Oh, I know. And I was like, damn die. Oh my God. Yeah. So it was nice for her to be able to go back in time or whatever. And I think it was especially getting, because other than Jenny, Dan was the only person who knew what was going on and believed her. And she had told other people and everybody else kind of like her mom and her sometimes husband, um, who ended up getting her fired because he shared her crazy journal with his, their boss. Like why would you do that? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Um, Yeah, it's just, it's so multilevel, everything like, it's really interesting to really look at the show and the book for sure. Uh, I'm not saying I want to go back and reread the book or anything, but it makes me curious, like it had, I watched the show first going in reading the book, if I would have done it, like the other way around instead of reading and then watching how my experience would have differed, you know, well, I was doing them at the same time, so it was really confusing. Um, because I kept waiting. There were things that I would read in the book and I was like, this was going to happen in the show. And like, I didn't know if it would ever show up. Um, and I kept waiting for the reality shifts from the show to happen in the book. Um, and then I finally figured out that, that wasn't that just not going to happen? Yeah. Um, Yeah, that was super, but I wouldn't recommend to do it that way. However, I will say, I think that if I had watched the show first, and then I went back to read the book, I would have been disappointed that the reality shifts weren't in there. C and that's why I think it's so confusing because they were almost bothering me because they weren't in the book and I was just confused the whole time. So that's why it's so hard to really compare the two, because they are so different. It's like, I mean, it's kind of, it's difficult to follow as it is because you're already time jumping back and forth through different people's heads. But then to add in the shifting times, um, or the sh the ship shifting realities or whatever you want to call them for Kirby's situation. Um, yeah, I was just like one more thing for me to try and figure out. Um, you know, I wonder why, like, why does Harper, why did Harper do like the crazy stuff that he did? Like, why did he in the show. Because in the book, there was like the sense of, he felt like he had to do it like a certain way or ritually, or he felt like he was, it was almost like he was appeasing the house or it was feeding the house. Like the house needed him to do it for somebody to not make it like that in the show. But in the show, it wasn't like that. And he was so twisted about the way he did it. Like, he, I guess he would do this in the, in the book. He would visit the girls when they were younger and tell them that he would come back for them creeper. Um, and then he would come back when they were grown up and kill them. Um, but in the show he was like, send them or they would, he would put like Polaroids of them. Yeah. That was so creepy. Especially the jewelry scene. Like he was, he would, she would find Polaroids of herself in that exact moment. Like, I, I don't know. I didn't understand why. I think he's just a psychotic. Yeah. That's what it is. Yeah. So do you think, I'm thinking, I know this, I know Leo is not in the book. He, what do you think his deal is? Because he though pretty much, when we know that he was, he kind of fought with, um, Harper in the war, um, whether or not how well they knew each other. I don't know. I don't think they knew each other very well, but they knew each other then. Um, and then they find the house together in the show. But through most of the show, Leo is in like a home essentially. Like he's not quote unquote, okay. Or they're a hundred percent. And he kind of goes in and out of his own reality. And he kept saying, you need to take me back to the house. You need, take me back to the house, but the house. So it alluded to the fact that he was kind of losing his mind because he wasn't at the house, but the house never was the same for him as it was for Harper. Like he could never, he couldn't transport or go to different times, like Harper could write unless he was with Harper. Yeah. But even Harper couldn't I think it was the way I understood. It was less than less than it was about being away from the house. Because I remember when Harper was in the hospital, um, like in the late eighties or something. Yeah. Hospital and he, uh, or nineties, I don't know. But, um, he was feeling the effects of quote unquote being away from the house. Um, I was beginning to think that it was less about him being away from the house. Cause I think he talked about it a little bit in the book too, and I was more thinking that it was about him being out of time, like out of his time, his oh, for timeline. Um, like he didn't belong in that time and that he was in that time for too long and that came needed to be in the house because the house was not in any time. Okay. So then Leo was in like the nineties time and he was clearly from war time. So he was just, okay. So he needed to go back to his time. And for whatever reason, he didn't have the connection to the house. Just like Clara didn't have the connection to the house, but Kirby, the first time she goes to the house, she can hear that like weird sound that Harper could hear. Um, I don't know, guys, I don't know. It's crazy. Yeah. The town, I would be interested to know if the author who wrote the book, if Lauren, if she, how she got this idea, like, if this is like a folklore thing or if this is like a haunted, you know, down the hall, down the street from her house sort of thing, you know, like or whatever it is, but it's very interesting story idea for sure. Yeah. Very interesting. Yeah. It's almost like a really creepy version of like a rip van Winkle kind of thing. Like, yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Um, kind of reminded me of, um, of Reddit, uh, this way comes, what's it called? Um, anyway, I'll, it'll come to me. Um, but like the traveling circus and, um, they like feed on people and I don't know the house kind of, I dunno, just the way that Harper and the house, um, clearly pad, whatever this connection slash. Yeah. I mean, because it wasn't, whatever it was, it wasn't just Harper because the guy, it, well, at least if you think about in, in the, in the show, the guy hung himself, you know, we find out one of the original guys and then. Um, well, I guess that could have been for any reason, but I assumed it was because the house had taken its toll on him, you know? Yeah. That's why he was like, it's yours, like hang myself or whatever, but anyway, well, I don't know any last thoughts, I think. Um, do you have a preference as far as like which one you liked better? Probably the show. Um, even though it was more confusing, um, But it's, I think it all comes down for me. It all comes down to the third person POV. I really, I think I enjoyed the show too, because I actually like was on the edge of my seat. I was worried about characters. I was creeped out by Harper. Um, and it helps, especially if you're a visual person, you know, and, and like I was say, I have a hard time going with the back and forth and time listening to it is a lot harder to keep track of then to like see the visual cues, you know? Um, and like I said, just the casting was spot on and everything felt so gritty and creepy. And, um, I really, it really helped you connect more to the characters then I, like you said, with the third person in the story, so yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Anyway, pretty interesting. It's kind of fun because. Again, like, it's not like my favorite book or show that I've ever watched, but I would have never watched it or read it otherwise. And now I can be like, that was some crazy shit that I, you know, like it was, it's a fun experience, you know, I think it was like the fourth show that we have watched on apple TV. Um, and maybe not, maybe it's raised by wolves, not on apple TV. I was thinking it was, um, super weird show. Um, stopped watching that one too. Um, but severance, um, is on apple TV. It was really good. I'm also super weird, super weird. Um, but in a very different way. Uh, and then at last I was wasn't weird. That was just fun, but, um, yeah, but yeah, apple TV gets weird watching prehistoric planet. What? Well, if you haven't, if you haven't started watching prehistoric planet, you better start. Cause that one's really cool too. That is that on apple TV? Yep. Cause it weird. No, it's not. It's it's like watching planet earth, but it's prehistoric it's. So it's like it's David Attenborough and he's narrating dinosaurs during, you know, from 65 9. It's really cool. It's really cool. They know like all these cool things about them now and yeah. Anyway, the lighten the mood a little bit here, guys. Let's watch the T-Rex swim through the ocean. Okay. Nobody thought that was going to happen, but it does. Okay. So they're going to have to rethink their location for Jurassic park. Um, okay. So anything else, any lasting thoughts or anything come to mind? I don't think so. I can tell you tennis is like, what are we watching? Oh yeah. I will say my husband was like, I don't understand what's going on. There was like a lot of cursing and, um, yeah, I, I told Dez I'm like, I literally cannot help you because I don't know what's happening. This isn't in the book. It's too funny. Yeah. Well, hopefully we didn't give, well, yeah, we gave all the spoilers away. Um, but I I'm interested to hear what other people say who have read and, or watch the show. I I'd actually be really interested to hear what people say about the show who haven't read the book or vice versa. Um, yeah, because I don't know, like, I wouldn't say the right a disadvantage, but it, it, it's kind of interesting to try and come at it from a different point of view that when you have an art, you don't already know what you think you need to expect or whatever. And if you have not either, if you haven't read the book or. Or watch the show. And for some reason you still listened to this whole thing and still, who knows, maybe he sold it. They're like we have to watch this crazy shit. Yeah. I would not recommend doing it at the same time. I feel like I would, I feel like I would recommend reading the book first and then watching the show. Well, I mean, it does the, the original story justice, right? Like you, it's based on a story that came out before the show. So if nothing else it's like, you'd want to know what the module is to, you know, like what are they trying to, what are they trying to accomplish? I think when you, by reading the book, you learn a lot more about Harper's character, even though his character's not exactly the same. I felt like I had a better understanding. Yeah. I agree with that for sure. Yeah. Whereas. Uh, Kirby had a lot more dimension in the show. Yes. That's very interesting how they did that set up a bit. Yeah. Way more. Yeah. Well, and like Harper was way more twisted than the show, but yeah, that's true. I feel like I love him as an actor even more now though. Like, like I said, they did amazing with the casting, for sure. So next time he's wearing a, you know, 1887 uniform and one of his historical fiction films, I'm going to be like, I don't know if I buy this anymore. What I've seen is do Mr. Jamie bell. I think that's it for this episode though, right? We're good. Um, thanks everyone for listening. Sorry. We were all over the place. That was a kind of a interesting, we were all over the place. Just like the show, like we were, I was, I knew going into it. I was like, this is going to be interesting one because it's so hard to even compile questions and lean your way. That makes sense because everything's so chaotic and the show in the book. But anyways, um, don't forget to check out the show notes for our episode links, our book wrecks and that sort of thing. Um, and we'll be back in a couple of weeks to chat about our next book talk book pick, and we're going to be reading The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo by Taylor Jenkins Reid. And I'm interested in this one, cause I've heard a lot about this book. Um, I am hoping I'm not let down cause everyone loves it. But another part of me, I have read, um, another book by Taylor Jenkins Reid, and I wasn't a huge fan and a lot of people were so there's have that stacked against me. So we'll see, we'll see how it goes. Um, if you enjoy the show, please leave us a review wherever you listen, and be sure to join our no shelf control book. Excuse me, Facebook group, almost wrong pipe there. Um, to weigh in on upcoming book questions and discussion topics. So until next time everybody happy reading and thanks for hanging out and we'll chat with you soon. Yeah.